To delay paying childminder

[Harmonyrays]

On day two of my ds being with his new childminder I receive an invoice for the entire month. Is this normal? I'd expected to get it at the end of the month. I've only just gone back to work and don't get paid until then.

AIBU to delay paying until the 30th?

Seems fair to me, wonder why more don't do it

Does this answer your question @StereophonicallyChallenged?

...just today one of my parents has dropped off her child and said tomorrow will be his last day as she has a new job further away. He is full time and they pay weekly in advance. They have told me they can't pay now and now I am £170 per week out of pocket. I needed that money and will have to pursue through the courts.

YRBU - Its normal to pay a 'good' nursery or child minder at the very least 2 weeks in advance.

Think of it this way - bills to pay - extra heat etc.

Would you expect someone to work - caring for your child - without any payment until the end of Sept - work done and perhaps no payment.
Many child nurseries/minders have been used this way - hence the request for payment.

@tigwig76 that's awful - I take it you will pursue because you have a contract with them that says otherwise? Do they think you just wont bother or do they not realise it's not ok?!

Cm are offering the same terms (ie payment in advance) so no real competition in the market. It’s a cartel!

I’d avoid using words you don’t understand. If there was real pent up demand in the market for payment in arrears that was compatible with a sustainable business model, the market would respond. Many posters have explained to you why it isn’t a sustainable business model for many.!

It’s pretty grabby to expect to be paid in advance when everyone else is paid in arears. Especially a month in advance.

I pay nursery a month in advance. I pay breakfast and after school club and kids clubs a term in advance. I pay holiday club for the whole holiday in advance. I pay the gym a month in advance. I have some other services on a retainer. Not everyone else is paid in arrears.

Many small businesses have to deal with clients who don’t pay- again cm not special.

They have found a way to avoid it, and thus not have to raise their prices for other clients to cover the payment-dodgers, or risk going out of business. That’s good business sense.

It’s not true that employers pay wages in arrears. Some do pay in advance; I used to work for an international IT company that did this. They wanted to discourage people from leaving.

A childminder wants to discourage people from leaving without paying, an all-too-common scenario. Payment in advance has been standard for years. Some may accept in arrears, but that’s usually weekly payments.

The contract doesn't stipulate one month adanvance

Well it should. I can't believe when money was due was never discussed at any point either!

I'm so glad my DH isn't childminding anymore as our son is older now, so many shitty attitudes from parents and reading some of the replies here! Getting payment in advance is not grabby, very sensible otherwise you will have provided childcare for a whole month and received no money. The month that happened to my DH we had to take a loan, and it might have taken a year but he got his money when he took those parents to court.

If I was your CM OP the letter you would have received today would have been one that told you you were now in arrears and if I didn't not receive payment in full, within 48 hours, care would be withdrawn. I didn't do that because I'm a CF, but because parents just like Zsazsajuju with their shitty attitudes had previously decided they weren't going to make paying for top quality care for their child a priority and would try to stiff me for hundreds of Euro.

Thank the lord I'm no longer having to deal with the vagaries of parents willingness to pay for care. I think anyone still doing the job should be put up for sainthood.

Cm are offering the same terms (ie payment in advance) so no real competition in the market. It’s a cartel!

There is plenty of competition in the market and I think you're misunderstanding the term 'cartel'.

A cartel is an association of producers (in this case, childminders) who collude to increase their individual profits by price fixing, restricting supply, and artificially raising costs. That is definitely not the case with childminders! They might have a reciprocal arrangement with another childminder to cover hours during periods of sickness or holidays but they maintain independent businesses with individual pricing structures. Prices are usually based on overheads, what is/isn't included, local demand for places, the childminder's level of experience and reputation, their Ofsted grading, their premises/facilities, and so on. For example, I would expect to pay more for a well established childminder graded Outstanding who includes all meals, snacks, nappies, and outings in her price than I would for a newly registered childminder who is yet to be graded and doesnt include the extras in her price.

Tigwig's situation is a classic example of why childminders, nurseries, after school clubs etc ask for fees to be paid one month in advance. I am always astounded how so many parents have no respect for the people looking after their children.

I am always astounded how so many parents have no respect for the people looking after their children.

Oh the tales I could tell of CF parents who seem to think that their £4 an hour has bought them access to their very own indentured servant....

Thankfully the majority of parents I contracted with were lovely but you never forget the dickhead ones. What people don't realise though is that childminders talk; where I live there is a monthly drop-in meeting between childminders and our liaison officer from the local authority where we can get advice, share experience, find out about additional training that's on offer, and so on. But we also talk and if we've been contacted by prospective parents we will often ask if they've used a childminder before and, if they have, we will often ask that childminder for their opinion. If you've been a cheeky fucker towards your childminder then odds are that every other childminder in the area will find out about it.

I am always astounded how so many parents have no respect for the people looking after their children

Yes, sadly I’m not. They are definitely in the minority, but as this thread has shown, they do exist and it’s heartbreaking. Obviously parents need to trust Childminders, but we also put their trust in parents. We trust them to be open and honest with us and to treat us as equals, but it doesn’t always happen. You develop a thick skin. I have had to learn to stick up for myself. Being apart of a childminding network helps as it can be very lonely.

I think it depends on the CM. I know a few CMs personally and we’ve discussed this socially - of those, two invoice weekly in arrears, one invoices weekly in advance, one who invoices mid month that pays for two weeks if arrears and two weeks in advance, and one who invoices a months in advance.
So it depends on the conditions you signed up for.

Payment in advance towards, Care, Insurance, CRB checks, first aid, food, heating/lighting. Wear and tear, hygiene, Travel, equiptment, activities, paperwork, etc etc etc. Discuss your needs and requirements before entering into a contract, when both parties have agreed, sign the contract and adhere to it, failure to pay can end in a court case.

When I was a childminder I charged in advance. If I remember rightly, the bill was due to be paid by the last day of the month, to cover the following month.

It's far too easy for people to just not pay a childminder. I've known so many get stung by arsehole parents, me included. Sadly for some parents, their childcare bill seems to be very far down their list of priorities! Childminders (and most other childcare providers, holiday schemes etc) charge in advance to protect themselves. It makes good business sense.

It's normal to pay in advance. I'd imagine there are many childminders who have billed at the end of the month, provided a months worth of childcare and just not got paid or had to chase parents round for payment. Why would the open themselves up to that?

If you delay you will be fined your lucky

Mine wouldn’t even allow you to start of you haven’t paid

Nurseys work like this also

Also my DD school changed to this system because people were just using the after school club and decided not to pay

So you now have to pay a term in advance

Unless you are super strict, even payment one month in arrears can easily become a whopping amount unpaid. To give an example:
-parent is a student so getting funding from their college/Uni. Who pay in arrears...
-even though we're normally payment in advance we accept this, trying to be supportive. Parent has 2 children, full time.
-standard terms are 1 month in advance, 28 days notice.

Children attend for first month. By end of month, no money received. Contract is with parents, college won't talk to providers. Chase parent, claims they'll talk to college. Person at college is on holiday, person at college says their claim's been processed, yada yada yada. Every time you're in touch it's a couple of days of "I'm chasing" before you get "oh there's another form"...

Eventually, 7 weeks in, parent pulls both kids with no warning.

College eventually talks to us and advises the parent started their course but very quickly stopped attending. The college paying anything is contingent on attendance...we're getting zip. Parent is unemployed, no point in chasing through courts.

7 weeks not paid for, plus 4 weeks notice not paid - times two kids.

I'd love to say this sort of thing is rare but you can see from all the posts above that it's really not. We've had variants on the above with colleges, unis, tax credits, "delayed" childcare vouchers, the job centre...which is why, like most, we're now payment in advance regardless of the situation.

I can understand the people making the point that the CM is feeding the child and therefore some forward payment would be reasonable but don't know what universe PPs live in where a service is ałways paid in advance!

Solicitor? Builder? Dentist? Gardener? Estate agent??

I think not.

This is where a lot of misconceptions and problems start. When you hire a childminder you're paying for a service, you're not paying them a 'wage'

A service still needs to be provided before you get paid for it. I'm self employed and so is dh we provide a service and at no time ever do we get paid before we have provided that service.

If your washing machine breaks down and the engineer comes round to fix it you don't pay him before he arrives at your house.

Even if you're employed on PAYE you get paid AFTER you've worked the week or month.

Only childminders it seems get paid in advance

Nannies get paid after and so do most trades,
The thing is now childminders are actually running a business.
I feel sorry for you op it’s such a lot of money to find up front.
We had a painter he didn’t ask for the wage up front. But we did pay for the paint which seems fair.

Adnerb I think it’s been covered fully in the posts above, but here is my view;

The services you mention may do one job in isolation.
A childminder is required on a regular, permanent basis (usually) therefore if the client or parent does a runner and fails to pay their weekly or monthly bill, it’s a much bigger financial loss than afternoons gardening. The payment in advance acts as insurance. People are less likely to be shits if they have paid for it.
Aside from the costs Childminders incur (which are huge btw) the money also ensures that space remains constantly avaible to the parent.
Finally, most insurance companies strongly suggest Childminders charge this way, why would they do that if there was no known risk? We are not greedy, grabby or mean, we are doing what we can to protect our small business’

But that isn't a fair comparison. Those are as and when needed services. CM offer long term spots for care, not just in Time/one time offers of care. If you hold a spot and don't pay, You are preventing the CN from offering the service to someone else. Same with nurseries.

I'm a childminder and I'm heartened to see much less CM bashing than usual. I have to say that in 26 years of minding I've only really encountered one family that I had a problem with and didn't get paid. I now ask for a months retainer & then get paid on the first day of each week. I have enormous respect for my children's parents and they for me. We work in partnership, I feel appreciated and thus provide a service to the best of my ability.
The moral of this story is clear, as in all this should have been discussed at the time of signing contracts.

I cannot believe all the childminder bashing on this thread. It is not just childminders who want paying in advance. It's all childcare related services - nurseries, preschools, after school clubs, holiday camps/clubs.

The reason for this is that so many parents don't hold childcare providers in high esteem and there are so many cases of parents not paying that Ofsted and insurance providers advise childcare providers to get the money upfront.