To think disabled women are going to lose their rights?

[tillytop]

I recently had a conversation with someone who finds it perfectly acceptable to direct an able bodied transwoman in a swimming pools ladies changing room, to the disabled facilities. Up to now I have been fully supporting concerned women. However, it now appears that the "go to" could be to direct people to the disabled facilities, disregarding the needs of disabled women who may have to queue to use their own hard fought for facilities.

I have compassion, however that doesn’t mean I think it is right for them to automatically be directed to take facilities from others when they are limited so much already

I think most people who need to use disabled facilities disagree to the only nappy change being in there too!

Understand what you're saying completely DN4 but we're stuck with this lack of facilities at the moment. I was trying to make a thread about the fact that when it comes down to it, one of the women who are always trying to gather support for their cause can just flippantly say oh well, just send the transwoman to the disabled cubicle. I'm disabled but still a woman. I was shocked to find I (and obviously other disabled women suddenly didn't count). That's why I started this thread.

They are the ones getting thrown under the bus here. No idea, and not one iota of compassion. No, looks like transpeople will be sharing with disabled people and baby changing parents. Trans problems have become our problem too. That's not being thrown under the bus is it? Compassion: what did you think about the posts from WellThisIsShit and Valleycloud? Can't even access their swimming pools properly? Compassion works both ways.

????

whatwouldyou how do you feel about that? That trans problems have become other peoples' problems?

I used the accessible toilet at the station this morning. I have a kidney and bladder disorder. Not wanting to be disrespectful to anyone with MH conditions but when I need a wee I need one pretty damn quick

No one is stopping trans people for asking for a third, unisex space. The people being thrown under the bus from losing their facilities are disabled people.

And forgot to say yes I do believe my need for the accessible toilet is much greater than a trans person. Unless they also have a disability in addition.

Upstart I think there needs to be a fourth place. Men, women, trans and disabled. Doubt if we'll get it though. Have you seen or heard of any trans lobbying for their own space? I haven't.

Maliali I think you can get a card from one of the bladder /bowel organisations to enable you to go into the nearest store and use the staff toilet. Would be handy in an absolute emergency.

We're all lacking facilities. Public facilities are being closed and cut left and right, people are fighting for better, but that doesn't explain how trans and other dysphoric people are the step too far in trying to make do with what we have now rather than arguing that there is a desperate need for more facilities. Most trans and other dysphoric people aren't the ones trying to take away our rights as disabled people, it's the ones who actually have the ability to do something about the shite situation we're in.

Many people dislike the space-saver arrangement of putting the baby changing facilities in disabled loos, but I've yet to see anyone claim that parents or the staff that points them to towards those facilities as they've been doing for many years now are somehow taking away our rights as disabled women we know it isn't the staff or the parents' fault that this is the way it is yet I regularly see trans and other dysphoric people blamed and told we need to do something about this situation as if we're somehow in control. Those in charge like to appear 'right on', but will do the laziest option possible no matter what solution we put forward - that's how it's been for years. We all know this, so why it is when it comes to trans and other dysphoric people, we're a step too far and need to be asking for things many of us have been asking for for years?

This isn't new. I was first told my dysphoria meant I should use disabled facilities about twenty years ago. This has been the way to deal with it long before I was around which is why people have been fighting for changes. I'm disabled, dysphoric, and still female - I'm not trying to take away dude's rights to a changing room either or disabled men's rights, or however people would phrase it when it's not a trans woman doing it.

We've been asking for unisex single stall spaces for years. The ones throwing people under the bus as those in charge, with the money and power, who find this lazy solution suits them, general people and staff who are used to this solution aren't really to blame nor are trans and other dysphoric people, not anymore than parents are to blame for changing rooms being put in disabled facilities.

It depends on availability. Where I live, there is no shortage of accessible facilities. The perks of a recently constructed area. (The downside is an absolutely paltry assortment of restaurants)

Bored you're getting me mixed up with someone else. I have NEVER said everyone should be a feminist or any of the other things you claim.There are another couple of "tilly" somethings. What do you mean "fuck the disabled?" I am disabled, hence this thread.

Thanks Tillytop I’m getting one from the bladder and bowel
Organisation but didn’t realise I could access staff toilets with the card. Good to know .

Most trans people don't have dysphoria I don't know why that keeps being mentioned.

Trans umbrella is v v wide and encompasses cross dressers, bigender people etc etc

Conversely many teenage girls DO have dysphoria about their bodies and there has never been any suggestion that they should have somewhere special to change - apart from that they should be able to do it away from men. Apparently now even this is an ask too far.

Re the PP's point saying there is no such thing as society and no-one shoud care about "women's issues" except women, that's just fucking stupid, men run the world, if they dont' think we need any rights we don't get them. I think it's supposed to be a "gotcha" of some sort (if you want other people to support rights for disabled people then you need to let loads of people who don't need it into the accessible facilities) but it's a shite gotcha, if that's indeed what it was supposed to be.

This is a looooooong way down the list of things that impact on disabled women.

Personally, I've got no issue with sharing space with trans women either in the women's changing areas or the disabled cubicles.

In the meantime, I'd love people to stop parking in disabled spots without a badge, stop tutting at me for being both young and disabled, and for the benefits system to become fit for purpose instead of discriminating so badly against disabled people that's the UN has condemned it a step such.

Is also really like GC feminism to stop crusading to make everyone think trans women are a threat to women, but that ain't gonna happen either.

Just checked on that Maliali Not sure about the Bladder and Bowel Community. But The IBS Network says you can present the card in public places or stores, etc. I reckon both cards will be the same.

Transwomen aren't a threat to women -

It's men who are a threat to women.

Locking rapists in prison with women for example. Because they have said their preferred gender is female and so the prison service goes rightho.

Why are so many women OK with giving creepy men the right to go wherever they want and fuck what happens to women and girls?

I don't get it.

And the accessible toilets are for those who need them. Although that has been massively eroded by the common practice of putting the baby changing in there etc.

The men at my work the other day were all saying they use accessible faciltiies if there is no-one else around. The women were all taken aback.

Yet where are the people having a go at men about all this.

Tilly thanks for checking that out. Will have a proper look when I get home. I keep meaning to sort it out but today has spurred me on what with being desperate at station earlier and this thread

NothingOnTellyAgain Just because Stonewall includes other groups in their definition of trans does not mean 'most trans people don't have dysphoria'. I don't think we have the data to say one way or the other. In either case, other mentionings of body dysmorphia, I'm the only one who said dysphoric prior to your post that I can see so I'll answer why I keep mentioning it. I use "trans and other dysphoric people" in situations like discussing facility access which would affect all dysphoric people as not all dysphoric people are trans. I also strongly prefer the term dysphoric for myself and so use it when discussing myself. I'm not going to let Stonewall, some loudmouths on social media or on here alter that.

I agree we should point the blame where it belongs - those with the power and money to bring about change and choose lazier options while spouting about inclusivity - rather than at those trying to deal with the bad situation as best we can. As someone who was once one of those teenagers you say you're concerned about, I was given accommodations for my dysphoria at school and find that those who argue either for our use of disabled facilities or sexed facilities tend to just be those who see what is currently available and have been convinced that one of those is the best option. Really, both are pretty lazy bad options but the alternatives - much like creating prison spaces to accommodate trans prisoners - require significant changes and funds that many in charge can't be bothered to actually put in place and we are often fobbed off with the reasons I've already given in previous posts.

Unless the person tillytop is talking about is in a position to help change things, it isn't really their fault for picking one of the current available and often given options for the issue. This is also not the fault of most trans or other dysphoric people, as much as many others don't believe us, many of us have been fighting for better facilities for years. The issue is people in charge can get away with lip service of inclusivity and accessibility while making those options sound far better than they actually are in reality. Much like the nappy changing facilities, it's all a space/money/effort saving issue for them, not a people issue and while some areas are getting better family facilities, facilities in general are being cut and hard to access for many which is something we should be coming together to fight for rather than trying saying one public group is the cause for any lack of access. That's a simplified solution that works for those in charge but won't get us anywhere as the target isn't going to disappear, as much as people would like us to.

DN4 many facilities and orgs are using self ID for sexed facilities / activities etc

As this is what orgs that advcocate on trans issues have advised.

You are not the one making these decisions so it doesn't matter if you agree with stonewall or not >> places like prisons, sports teams, leisure centres, schools etc etc are using the recommendations from those places.

I suppose the end game at least when it comes to faciltiies is tha lots of women and girls will stop using them, leaving more room for others, which would be one solutions.