To think disabled women are going to lose their rights?

[tillytop]

I recently had a conversation with someone who finds it perfectly acceptable to direct an able bodied transwoman in a swimming pools ladies changing room, to the disabled facilities. Up to now I have been fully supporting concerned women. However, it now appears that the "go to" could be to direct people to the disabled facilities, disregarding the needs of disabled women who may have to queue to use their own hard fought for facilities.

Yes buzz I do think mental ill health is classed as a disability. I have 2 adult children with mental ill health. Both obtained radar keys with their Pip certificates.

So that makes sense to me as their mentail ill health is obviously classed as a disability

but not everyone with a mental health issue ...again in my opinion

So people who identify as trans should start claiming PIP so they can use the toilet?

So what people are saying is its ok to force someone with a physical disability to mess themselves, because you don't want to use the 'wrong' changing room - but are ok with using a unisex facility.

Its mind boggling.

Buying a key means you don't have to queue up at the council offices and then have to explain to them ( people not experts on disability) why you need one.
People who do not have pip/dla/blue badge may still need one.

I was talking about the disabled changing cubicle rather than toilets but didn't explain properly. Apologies.

So people who identify as trans should start claiming PIP so they can use the toilet

If this is directed at me

No...i dont think they need a PIP and i don't recall saying that they that they should have one, apologies is i wasnt clear enough

If they have a mental health issue that means that have to use the disabled loo then thats fair enough

But i dont think that all mental health issues mean that they should use the disabled loo....they would be full!!

People who do not have pip/dla/blue badge may still need one

Exactly

Rufus it was directed at - Both obtained radar keys with their Pip certificates. Maybe that is the way forward? from the op. I should have been more clear.

The problem is there will be loads of people without pip certificates who need to use the accessible facilities for one reason or another.

Then again you can buy them for as little as £1.25

@Buzzlightyearsbumchin I have no problem with your child using whichever disabled toilet they are most comfortable in, and I say that as a disabled person.

What I do have a problem with is the gender critical movement trying to use disabled rights issues to forward their cause. If you're not disabled, or you've never campaigned about disabled rights before, please leave us out of it. We have far bigger issues to worry about, like the never ending cuts to disability benefits, barriers to employment, and cuts to the NHS. They affect our quality of life every single day.

Disabled facilities are usually larger and have hand rails etc. Because they are for people that can't use the other facilities.

Let me get this straight.

My nephew, who is a wheelchair user has to wait outside because someone able bodied is using it? He has to sit in his own piss while someone who could use another toilet or changing room is using the disabled facilities?

Rightio. All sounds perfectly fair and reasonable to me.

He has to sit in his own piss while someone who could use another toilet or changing room is using the disabled facilities?

I think the whole point is some people who are not physically disabled, feel they can't use another toilet or changing room.

You or I may disagree, but they know their own capabilities and their own mental health issues.

Look disabled women have been sharing their cubicle swimming or toilets with baby changing tables for decades and decades so this transwomen is just another person using the space baby changing tables and tiny toddler toilets are always justifiable so why not a transperson?

Baumederose that's what I was trying to say, but not doing very well. Thanks.

Bombardier that's partly was I was also trying to say. I was disappointed to find that a woman finding it unacceptable to have a transwoman in the changing room would willingly direct them to the disabled facility, as if any disabled woman needing that facility doesn't count. As if it doesn't matter if we're inconvenienced as long as she isn't.

The thing about a disabled changing area is that they often have

1. a hoist
2. an access shower
3. a changing bed for the very paralysed or incontinent
4. Enough room for 1/2 carers

It isn't just a toilet and people who need those things shouldn't be forced to wait for people who don't need them

feel they can't use another toilet or changing room.

And that's the key word. Feel.

Only those feelings don't override physical disability needs. Using a catheter. Being doubly incontinent. Needing someone to help you get onto and off of the toilet. Needing someone to help you clean yourself.

Don't doubt some people have issues with the toilet but it's not due to a physical disability. Physical disabilities get priority.

Mrsjayy why is it ok for disabled people and baby changing parents to share yet again. 3 users for one small facility because women don't want transwomen in their larger space?

the incursion of trans stuff across other marginalised / discriminated against / groups with specific requriements to access public space is a real issue

Lots of accessible toilets have been relabeled as unisex / multigender also
There often aren't many and should be reserved for people who need that extra space / etc

Simialrly lots of womens toilets being relabelled unisex / multigender
While women's toilets already have queues often and really dont' need to be opened up as an option for everyone

Men's toilets meanwhile seem to be immune to such changes

So men can go anywhere and women / people with disabilities face longer queues / possibly going out less as there are no suitable facilities

quelle surprise

Other thing is that accessible faciltiies are often more spacious etc

If who can use it is eroded in society

Then it will be a free for all

Poeple who could use other facilities will use it

It will always be occupied

Peopel who NEED it will be put off going due to long waits.

Disabled changing rooms and toilets should be for those with the psychical need for them not mental want. Just because you have issues with your gender doesnt mean you should use the rooms adapted with hand rails/alarms/personal sink etc leave that poor person sat in mess or with an overflowing bag to empty.

Where was this transwoman supposed to get changed for swimming then where would be appropriate for her ?

Exactly Valleyclouds For myself I need plenty of room and a seat whilst drying and dressing. I can't even stand and queue outside the disabled cubicle if someone else is using it, have to go sit on a bench to wait. The more people use it, if I can't get there quickly enough I lose my place and have to wait all over again. If transwomen are also going to use it, I'll never get in. There will be plenty of people in my position. This has left me feeling that we don't count!

"3 users for one small facility because women don't want transwomen in their larger space?"

You see this is wrong.

This is pitting women and people with disabilities against each other - divide and rule.

It is reasonable for people with disabilities not to have people who do not need to use the accisibile facilities using them..

It is ALSO reasonable for women to have single sex changing areas, the impacts of removing this (which is the effect) have been well discussed on here.

As usual the people at the top of the heap >> in this case men without disabilities >> are unaffected and people who NEED certain things are left fighting amongst themselves.

This is not right.

If transwomen (and any man who says "I'm a woman") need to change away from the men they should be provided with space that does not negatively impact either people with disabilities or old stype women and girls ie the cunty sort.

There should be IMPACT ASSESSMENTS done around all these changes.

As they are negatively impacting
People with disabilities
Women and girls who follow certain religions / cultural practices (this includes UK women TBH, it is not a cultural norm to take your clothes off in front of people with dicks)
Women and girls who have had certain exerpeineces with men
Women and girls who just don't want people with dicks around when they're disrobing etc
+++ of course safeguarding concerns (see recent report on massive increase of male on female sex offences in mixed changing facilities at leisure centres)