To think they should never have been allowed more children ?

[JellieEllie]

This couple have lost 3 children to death in a period of 16 months.
The father has now separated from the children's mother and has gone on to have a further child with his new partner.

Why oh why are these types of irresponsible parents allowed to keep on breeding?
Should laws be put in place where parents who are the direct cause of a child's death be forcibly sterilised to prevent further incidents in the future ?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/parents-whose-baby-died-boozed-13209349

Oh yes of course I can see why she continued having them. I've discussed with her numerous times about the reasons why.
She wanted someone to love, she wanted to prove herself to the authorities, she wanted to have a baby because they are cute. There were lots of reasons she gave. Some of them I understood some I didn't.
I just think she shouldn't have been able to have more after the first. If I could say what she did then it would explain everything but I really can't. She should never be allowed near children or to have them again in future.
Again, it's my opinion. I am entitled to have one.

Again, it's my opinion. I am entitled to have one.

And people are free to tell you approving of forced sterilisation is an abhorrent view to hold.

She should have been stopped from getting pregnant in the first place.

HOW?

You can't force her to use contraceptives. You can't sterilise her. You can't stop her from having sex with a willling fertile man. So just how are you going to stop her from getting pregnant?

This is encroaching on dangerous territory. Have you read brave new world? I think only the alphas could reproduce?
Alcohol dependency is not ideal in parents but if I lost my kids I would want to block it out and probably rarely be sober.
I have two healthy dc but had a late miscarriage and probably wasn't the most stable at the time.
I have a degree. It didn't and doesn't make me a better parent.

I have no problem with others opinions at all, I really don't. What I have a problem with is people not really expressing their own and why, but asking me question after question after question about why I have mine.
I said earlier I like to hear what other people think. I like to have my opinion changed if possible or at least to hear an opposite opinion.
So far all I've heard is people attacking mine and not really coming back with why they are disagreeing. Which is obviously getting no where.
Why don't people think that forced sterilisation or contraception is an option?

I can't understand why long term contraception is not offered to those people who do not have the mental capacity to look after their offspring whether it be to do with drugs/ mental illness/ special needs. There are so many children who are badly neglected and maltreated without the parents even realising it. And yes.....I also would go as far as to say people should be sterilised who have previously damaged their unborn child through addiction etc.

Mirrivan makes a great point, OP, Tomhardyswife- what about when the government decides you’re unsuitable go have children? You’re going to submit to your mandatory sterilisation?

I have a little knowledge of this case and it's not quite as straightforward as it was reported. My understanding is that the other two children sadly died of complications due to prematurity, including the older child.
I also believe that there were external factors in the mother's life which caused some of her problems. I believe she was vulnerable. These factors have now been removed. Not sure of the wisdom of reporting her current location.
That being said, my knowledge is sparing and it's difficult to make a judgment without knowing the full and complete facts.

If I could say what she did then it would explain everything but I really can't.

It wouldn't matter if she had beaten, raped, starved, or prostituted that infant child, you still can't stop her from getting pregnant again. It's not legal, and rightly.

So what I'm seriously being argued against here is that if someone KILLS their child, abuses them, neglects them, causes them pain and suffering. They are perfectly ok to then go on and have further children are they ?
I honestly just don't agree with that.

For the record I am a perfectly normal woman. If I wanted to have children I'm sure that I would be a decent parent. So no I won't be getting sterilised anytime soon considering I don't abuse or kill children but thanks for the input.

Latteday- long term contraception is offered and indeeed encouraged to those groups. What makes you think it isn’t?

OP people are telling you clearly your opinion is stupid because it can’t possibly work. What’s so hard to understand?

Why don't people think that forced sterilisation or contraception is an option?

Because it’s utterly immoral in a civilised society?

I've never articulated it op, but let me try...
Forced sterilisation just feels wrong because you're taking away all their choices. you're setting yourself (you, the state) as a judge of whether or not you're going to allow their body to do what it's designed to do. it's not like limiting their choices in other ways like not offering them a job, not funding their education, not subsidising their healthcare. Jobs, education and healthcare are all products of civilisation. But reproduction is essential to our nature. So forced sterilisation isn't just refusing to give them something, it's taking away something that is rightfully theirs. It crosses a line. You say in your posts 'they shouldn't be given the right to have more children's and that's the problem, you're looking at it the wrong way. No one can give them the right, it's always been theirs.

Forced sterilization of certain groups of society deemed unworthy of reproducing became a popular practice in Germany in the 1930's.

Not just Germany, either.

@zzzzz I haven't hurt a child though. I'm talking about parents who do so your argument is irrelevant.

But once a child is born, that child has rights too. So you can say, no I'm taking this child away from you because I can see you're hurting/about to hurt it and that's not ok. Although the bar should be high, imo.

@TotHappy thank you for that. I really appreciate your explanation and you articulated it very well actually.
It's always good to hear reasons behind a contrasting opinion. I will go away and think about what you have written because it's food for thought.

It’s not irrelevant. Once someone else decides who can have babies you give that person the power to decide. The day they decide all black people should be sterilised, or people from a certain neighbourhood, all addicts, etc... you gave them the power. And they could use it against you as much as anyone else

I find many of the posts in this thread which apparently advocate eugenics and the forced sterilisation of those deemed "unworthy" of parenthood alarming in the extreme

There are lots of great parents in this country who would have been forcibly sterilised under Nazi rules.

Jews
Gay people
Disabled Parents
Gypsies

And more

It's fucking abhorrent to say we should implement a like system

We as a society do the best we can by taking existing and subsequent children from parents proven terminally unfit by law and finding good people to take care of them.

Anything else belongs in a dark dystopian hellscape run by frothing at the mouth fascists

Why don't people think that forced sterilisation or contraception is an option?

Bodily integrity. If the state is allowed to force me to use contraception (that may kill me, thanks to a medical condition) or perform surgery on me against my will, why can't the state also:

• arrange for men to rape me (a.k.a. "comfort women", look it up)?
• force me to gestate on behalf of other women who cannot (e.g. Handmaid's Tale)?
• steal my organs at will, e.g. kidneys and bone marrow?
• steal my blood?
• force me to submit to medical experimentation?
• steal my ova to give to other women?

Without the right to self-determination including deciding what happens to my body from the skin inwards, I have no other meaningful rights.

It’s head over heart. My heart goes out to the poor neglected children and I want to say that the parents done deserve to reproduce but my head says who the fuck gets to make that decision about another human body. They ethics around get pretty shady pretty fucking quickly.