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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU not to agree to holiday pay for a self-employed child minder?

86 replies

coffeenwine · 06/09/2018 20:55

Am a bitch? To me: self employed means you sort tax out your self, take ‘more’ pay home and take holidays when you want, have more autonomy on hours etc. but don’t recieve sick/ holiday pay. To get these you need to register as employed? Advice/ experience please...

OP posts:
madcatladyforever · 06/09/2018 22:30

Totally agree. I am self employed and had no holiday this year as I couldn't afford to take one unpaid.
Childminders are no different.

lowtide · 06/09/2018 22:32

Talk to an accountant.

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat · 06/09/2018 22:33

madcatlady read the thread

Foodylicious · 06/09/2018 22:36

As you are wanting yo employ her as a nanny, you need to make sure you include
Tax & NI cobtribitions, sick pay, holiday pay and maternity pay & leave agreements.

Or you could go with her idea

lowtide · 06/09/2018 22:45

@Foodylicious
Put it much better than me!
What happens if you don’t want her anymore? You can’t just say don’t come in next week!
4 weeks holiday pay. For no lialbitly! You’re a mug if you don’t agree it.

GeorgieTheGorgeousGoat · 06/09/2018 22:47

Erm because it’s illegal? Hmm

AlexanderHamilton · 06/09/2018 22:47

*As you are wanting yo employ her as a nanny, you need to make sure you include
Tax & NI cobtribitions, sick pay, holiday pay and maternity pay & leave agreements.

Or you could go with her idea*

Going with her idea could involve large fines & potential back payments of Employers NI by HMRC.

PandaPieForTea · 06/09/2018 22:48

If you pay her and expect her to sort out her own tax as a self-employed childminder, you may well end up with a hefty tax bill when HMRC notice that she is actually an employee. And you will be liable, not her. Under no circumstances should you agree to pay her except by running a proper payroll and paying all of the NIC (employer’s and employee’s) and PAYE. You should also ensure you agree a gross salary. If you agree a net salary and she does other work, her tax bill may rise, but you end up paying it.

zsazsajuju · 06/09/2018 22:59

@lowtide, there’s not no liability though is there. She would factually be an employee so if you got caught there would be a significant liability. It’s an employers responsibility to withhold tax and pay it to Hmrc. If you don’t and they find out you have to pay with penalties.

lowtide · 06/09/2018 23:02

Well she will pay more for an employee than she will for a self employed person. And childcare is almost always self employed.
So we could go by the letter. Or we could just do what most people do, and save as much money as possible.

I fear the op doesn’t like paying for what she’s not getting. If I was the nanny, that would cause alarm bells. I don’t think she’s doing it from some kind of idea of being an upstanding person in society. Though maybe I’m wrong.

littlemisscomper · 06/09/2018 23:13

Veering off topic a bit, what are you paying her? Because a childminder is like, £3.50 an hour, whereas a nanny is more like £10ph. If she's living out you'll need to pay at least minimum wage.

Original poster
coffeenwine · 06/09/2018 23:14

Lowtide: tbh I just don’t want a load of shit from HMRC (if that makes me an ‘upstanding person in society or not’ I don’t give a shit. i just wanted to know if this was a legit option or not in peoples experience) and Ive worked as both self employed and employee and just accepted as SE that I didnt get holiday pay, but had more autonomy. I asked here just in case people had experience in this. Quit your judgemental take on a straightforward queation...

OP posts:
Original poster
coffeenwine · 06/09/2018 23:16

@littlemisscomper was thinking of £11, but not sure its a goer now... will see tomorrow

OP posts:
mostdays · 06/09/2018 23:16

Our cm charges half fee for holidays she has given us 4+ weeks notice of, for up to 4 weeks in a year, and for her sickness. It seems reasonable enough tbh.

lowtide · 06/09/2018 23:28

11 p/h
21k per year.
It’s depressing when you think about it. No wonder she’s trying to fudge the tax system to get as much as she can, it’s shit for her.

Original poster
coffeenwine · 06/09/2018 23:35

@lowtide don’t worry, I earned half that last year as a freelancer with a fucking master’s degree not the shitting point

OP posts:
lowtide · 06/09/2018 23:37

Oh dear. How can you afford a full time nanny then?
Who earns double your salary?
I can only imagine.

Original poster
coffeenwine · 06/09/2018 23:43

@lowtide welcome to the world of performing arts. Short term contract that would take my salary so I can keep my hand in as they don’t understand that people take a break to have children in my industry. Now fuck off this thread

OP posts:
BritInUS1 · 06/09/2018 23:52

She’s a nanny, you need a payroll as an employee

lowtide · 06/09/2018 23:53

What I am trying to point out, is that she is trying to get the most out of a shit system with shit pay.
You also are in a shit system with shit pay. Only you perhaps have someone else that relieves that burden for you financially.

So, you could have just been nice and said, yes I’ll help you out, I know it’s tough out there. It costs you about the same either way, it costs her more.

Original poster
coffeenwine · 07/09/2018 00:02

@lowtide I get what you say, but I could be prosecuted as well as heavily fined if I get this wrong. I have been in her shoes and always accepted it and got through. I was just asking...

OP posts:
PandaPieForTea · 07/09/2018 00:03

Lowtide - it isn’t a choice, HMRC have rules about employment/self-employment and not following them is tax evasion. The OP would be putting herself at risk by agreeing to this tax evasion.

Are you equally blazé about breaking other laws?

lowtide · 07/09/2018 00:03

Really, likelyhood of a part time worked and a self employed nanny being invesited by hmrc. And she probably does have to do other work. You’re not a multi national.

lowtide · 07/09/2018 00:04

Worker

yesiamgoingtoeatthat · 07/09/2018 00:06

You need to speak to HMRC. Freelancers are entitled to holiday pay (I am self-employed and charge my rate + HP). If the person is a limited company then you just pay a rate; it's up to the company to look after its employee and cover holidays.

www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement-rights