The tax system in this country is unfair and penalises hard work

[renouncefifty]

I have just finished an assignment working 20 days straight and put in nearly 300 hours. Im exhausted but have a week off to recuperate.

I get overtime for every hour over 8 hours a day I work and overtime for weekends all day. I just realised I've "earnt" £9000 this month which sounds fantastic BUT over £3000 is going in Tax and god knows how much in NI. I dont get a full personal tax allowance as im taxed on my private health insurance premium. I will be lucky to see 5.5k of that money. Oh im in scotland so we pay a penny more per pound in tax also.

I just think sometimes why bother ?

Kelly the carer was from earlier posts which you would know if you had read the thread

Sleepy by the same token then a low wage earner shouldn't complain because that's their choice and how they spend their salary.

Someone who has been on a higher tax rate has more choice over who their employer is and what package they accept.

Most Higher rate jobs will include good maternity packages.

Consider the following situation. Alice and Brenda both work for Megacorp. Alice works 30 hours a week, she can't work any longer because of her family duties. Brenda is always working overtime and averages 60 hours a week. However Alice is a more productive employee, so in her 30 hours she generates just as much value for Megacorp as Brenda does in her 60 hours. Megacorp recognises this, and Alice and Brenda both earn the same per year despite their different working hours.

In this hypothetical, if you think Brenda deserves to pay less tax because she's working long and hard, then you're saying Alice should be penalised for being better at her job. Do you think that would be morally right?

If you think both should pay less tax, where do you propose to make up the shortfall? Tax the lower-earners, who have the least to give, more? Tax the super-rich (and OP is already pretty rich!) even more, leading to them feeling penalised for success and avoiding said taxes anyway? Cutting services, which again typically hurts the poor most?

I strongly feel that household taxation would be substantially better for society and I hold out hope that one day enough people will realise they’re being cheated and call for it to be addressed.

In terms of deciding who would be classed as a ‘household’ the government decides that everyday. Anyone who has applied for any kind of benefit will know that the government is extremely good at classifying ‘household’ income when it means they can reject a benefit claim. However, they won’t offer any tax relief on that ‘household’ income because that wouldn’t be financially beneficial to them ?

To be frank it both discourages and disadvantages family units and is 100% not just a ‘high earner’ issue. It actually impact lower earning families JUST as much.

Imagine two family homes have an income of £24,000. The first family (A) has one partner earning a full time wage whilst the other family (B) have both partners working part time hours for £12,000 each.

Family A would bring home £1600 a month whilst Family B would bring home £1900.

With kids and a house to run and a tight budget why the hell should family B miss out on that £300? That could mean the difference between being able to do a grocery shop or not why should they lose out due to semantics of who works what hours?

Equally why the HELL should a family earning 90k get child benefit just because both partners earn 45k??? Whilst another household earning £51k from one partner don’t get it?

That’s CRIMINAL that unessisary CB could be redirected to families FAR more in need or even to places like the NHS

It just boggles my mind that the country allows this.

Household taxation is a wonderful idea as most people think as a unit anyway - much harder to keep track of though but we do it for benefits...

Not quite sure where Safriboat's little allegory is going.

TBH I think CB should still be a universal benefit as reducing it to the top 20% saved little cash anyway.

What it was very effective in doing is creating division and jealousy.

"Whilst another household earning £51k from one partner don’t get it?"

The cut off is £60,000 it goes at a sliding scale.

I agree with meteor on the way CB is managed in this country - it's ludicrous. Apart from that I think you need to look at what's actually coming in each month after tax and cut your cloth. I'm a single mum these days and my household income literally halved in February. I get a very small amount of Child Tax Credit but I earn too much for anything else. Am a basic rate tax payer.

So a lot of things have had to go and we weren't exactly splashing the cash beforehand. A lot of high earners on this thread go on about school fees - nobody is forcing you to go independent, that is a choice you make. They go on about how hard their OH works to make ends meet - so get a job then. Most normal people need two working adults in a household and yes, they need to pay for childcare.

As for the poster upthread who goes on about her NHS surgeon husband who doesn't make that much - my heart bleeds. Your H is in the top 5% income bracket in the UK. Appreciate what you have.

I don’t think any higher earners expect anybody’s tears, equal respect to people on lower incomes, that’s what I would like to see.

@safariboot

I think it has more to do with career demand, skill and ability than just how hard somebody works. If somebody does the same job it’s irrelevant how long they take to do it and they deserve to take home the same.

I’m going to borrow your characters though (I hope you dont mind)

Imagine Alice got a promotion as she passed an accredited qualification she’d been working toward and suddenly earn’t 10K a year more, but her new desk was right under an air con vent so she complains to HR.

Brenda resents that Alice was promoted and earns more as she thinks she works ‘just as hard if not harder’ and chooses not to acknowledge that she doesn’t have the same accredited qualification and isn’t as efficient at her job (as you explained).

Brenda overhears Alice conversation with HR and then spends the rest of the day bitching to EVERYONE who will listen about how she would ‘HAPPILY’ sit under a freezing air vent for an extra 10K a year and Alice should be ‘grateful’ that she gets to freeze her ass off everyday for that promotion!!! Which is totally irrelevant as Brenda simply isn’t qualified to now do Alice’s job.

I would say that’s a pretty accurate summary of what happens on mums net when anyone earning a high salary complains about anything!!!

Taxation is theft

What absolute shite.

Taxation is an essential part of the social contract. It pays for services we all depend on at some time in our livesm and benefits everyone, equally.

And OP, if paying the extra tax on your overtime is such an issue for you, maybe you should take time off in lieu instead. After all, there's no tax on TOIL.

High earners still benefit more from society, as society facilitates their earnings.

They are allowed to whinge, but also on occasions need to check their privilege.

I would say that’s a pretty accurate summary of what happens on mums net when anyone earning a high salary complains about anything!!!

I would say it's a piece of bad fiction - in your example, clearly one person has worked to gain relevant qualifications and has earned that promotion and I cna't think of a reasonable person who would complain about that...

What I see on here is people not accepting that actually they have it pretty damn good. The UK isn't a high tax country.

I'd like to live in a country where you can actually afford to live on NMW. Not in a mansion, not extravagantly, but I don't think asking for warm, safe housing that is affordable is too much to ask for. I don't think being able to heat that housing is too much to ask for. I don't think being able to feed the people living there healthy, nutritious food (not talking champagne lifestyle here) is too much to ask for.

Right now there are people working for NMW or even above who need food banks because the cost of living is insane. If you think that is acceptable, you're part of the problem.

Just parroting Ayn Rand doesn't make you right.

.., just right wing.

No, the highest earners pay the taxes that "facilitate" the welfare state that supports the low earners and unemployed.

I hate to break it to you, but even those tax-shirking unemployed and low earners pay VAT and other indirect taxes. And a good chunk of the money they get goes straight to private landlords (75% of the income of a single, unemployed person in my area is for their rent).

Welfare spending on the ill, the unemployed and low earners only accounts for around 14% of public spending. Pensions and health care are both higher, education is only a little lower.

I think most sensible people realise that 14% is a small price to pay not to have to step over the ill and unemployed living and dying on the streets.

Topcat you are totally wrong many many top employers have shit maternity packages

Meteor your post on CB and taxing household income is really very well put. Id vote for a party advocating taxing households rather than individuals. Some of us have jobs with crazy hours that means the other person in a relationship has little opportunity to develop their own career

Meteor what a horrible snobbish post.
Had to be a karen and Kelly as the low paid workers and of course the regal Alexander as the surgeon.
Snobbery at its finest.

Yes I thought that.

I think Meteor is back at school tomorrow.

well in the end i would rather pay tax on 9k than tax on £4.5k

@waitrose

That’s right ignore all the sensible points Ive made and insinuate im a child based on not liking the names I used in an example 😂!!

Hate to ruin your ‘snobbish theiry’ but Kelly and Alexander are real names of real people I know in those professions.

I also know a lauren and a Leah the carer and a GP called Catherine ...but that doesn’t help your politically correct ‘every snowflake is equal’ agenda now does it?

Forgive me for not re writing reality so that you find it more acceptable 🙈😂

Go back to Waitrose you total pigeon!

My dp finds he loses his over time to CB so he doesn't do it anymore. It's insanity as his company needs it. Basically a couple gettting more as a household get CB on top ie he is expected to do overtime for nothing whilst as a household we bring in less,err no thanks. He isn't the only one,it's ridiculous.

@MeteorGarden women caught for years to be treated as individuals in the era of the law, and you’ll take away individual taxation over my dead body.

Your examples are a pile of horse shit anyway, your family is free to structure self to have two lower wage earners vs one Hughs reagent earlier if you believe that is more advantageous.

[FYI I believe CB should go back to being a universal benefit, the amount it saves versus the reduction in female standing is debatable]

@P3onyPenny your husband could sacrifice his overtime into his pension. You keep CB, he bumps his pension significantly, the company gets the work. Win. Win. Win.

The thing is doing a 7 day week is tough on the family. We as a family need the benefit of OT now.