The tax system in this country is unfair and penalises hard work

[renouncefifty]

I have just finished an assignment working 20 days straight and put in nearly 300 hours. Im exhausted but have a week off to recuperate.

I get overtime for every hour over 8 hours a day I work and overtime for weekends all day. I just realised I've "earnt" £9000 this month which sounds fantastic BUT over £3000 is going in Tax and god knows how much in NI. I dont get a full personal tax allowance as im taxed on my private health insurance premium. I will be lucky to see 5.5k of that money. Oh im in scotland so we pay a penny more per pound in tax also.

I just think sometimes why bother ?

@SpringSnow

The market with no state to provide checks to prevent its excesses would lead to a horrific anarchic free-for-all - a survival of the fittest society with the strongest flourishing and the less fortunate literally dying in the street. If you’re disabled, sick, or in any other way disadvantaged, and you are of little or no worth to the market, you’re screwed.

You may want this dog-eat-dog society. I don’t...and thankfully millions agree with me.

I'm not saying freedom comes without cost.

That cost being a tax, yes? How else do you suggest your ideal world stays (relatively) safe?

Well somehow I doubt your deluded little anarchist utopia is ever going to happen.

Bombardier25966

The military should be paid for out of government funds.

Police, fire and education should be paid for at town or county level via council tax (should be the only tax)

If the firefighters want to charge for their service that’s fine, it should be covered by your insurance.

You may want this dog-eat-dog society. I don’t...and thankfully millions agree with me.

And I say that as someone who earns £100k and pays a lot of tax.

The military should be paid for out of government funds.

Um, how do you think the government is funded?

I'll give you a small clue. Begins with t

My solution to make some parts of tax a bit more palatable, is that instead of the current NI system we should have a social security account with an infinite overdraft to which all benefits are charged. Not just actual cash ones, but an insurance premium for NHS, the cost of any increase in future state pension entitlement, etc. (During our working lives an amount should be charged that amounts to an advance payment for the average amount of NHS care or social care we are likely to need in retirement.) Then, instead of paying NI payments and income tax, anyone who was was overdrawn on their NI account would simply be paying off their social security overdraft. At least half the population would pay no tax, they'd only ever be paying for what they get, so would be in no position to complain about deductions.

One could argue that the cost of NHS and education for children should be added to parent accounts, a cost of maybe 7K per school year per child to be shared between the parents. But maybe it would be fairer to spread the load more evenly, with each adult paying for only one childhood. So an alternative approach would be to give each British adult a starting bill of over 100K for what they received from the state while growing up!

Baumederose

Please refer to my previous post, government should fund itself through business (selling of oil, arms etc)

I agree with you OP. DH is a high rate of tax payer. He pays more in tax every year than I earn! Higher rate tax payers are propping up the poor and the super-rich. Bonkers. We live a nice enough life but certainly nothing excessive. No long-haul holidays, one average car between us, normal house, no children.

If taxation is theft, then why are council tax and import tax okay?

Firesuit

Interesting solution

Almost makes me glad for the current shower of politicians/government reading some of this shite.

@SegmentationFault - Not in our lifetime, but there's thousands of people resentful of state incursion so I can imagine things becoming freer.

@SegmentationFault

If taxation is theft, then why are council tax and import tax okay??They are both wrong.

My private pension is probably going to be better than my state one, I would like to opt out of the state pension so I can pay more into my own.

@Firesuit thats an interesting idea.

There is much evidence to show that people don't value things you get for free, so showing the actual value of things might help. However how would this be accounted for and by whom?

Would be keen to see what the psychological impact of having the 'debt' would be. Would people avoid work because their 'debt' is so big anyway? Would it lead to people not seeking e.g. dental treatment as they don't want their 'debt' to grow?

Tax is not theft.

Its paying for the society that facilitates your earning.

Just parroting Ayn Rand doesn't make you right.

I am a higher rate taxpayer, six figures a year etc, and I swear to god the only thing I care about is being able to look after my family without fear.

I’m not greedy and I accept the taxation from my wages pays for the services we need

I think YABU especially the “hard work” comment - everyone is busy and everyone works hard, please consider yourself lucky for being so well remunerated

@SpringSnow

Thankfully your extremist views are in the minority.

"They are both wrong"

I was replying to the poster who said taxation is theft but those two taxes are okay.

Would it lead to people not seeking e.g. dental treatment as they don't want their 'debt' to grow?

I'm sure there would be some people who'd take debt avoidance further than we'd like, but across society as a whole we seem to be more than ready to take on debt for much more frivolous needs than this, so I'm not to worried.

I really like the idea of "soft debt", an infinite overdraft for the things deemed socially important, but one that only gets repaid if and when people can afford to.

I think we could junk the current student loans system and add student loans to the categories of spending that are allowed to be charged to the social account.

Only 20 days OP. Dh ( also high rate tax payer) sometimes does a similar number of hours in a week ( working every day) for 6 weeks, sometimes 8 weeks. He then usually goes straight back into normal hours because they can't all have days off afterwards. He doesn't begrudge it being taxed.

how would this be accounted for and by whom?

HMRC are already doing personalised accounts where people can see/submit their tax returns and view their state pension entitlement, and these are apparently due to show tax deducted at source by various organisations, so there could be a personalised social security account there. Actual individual cash benefit amounts could be copied over from the benefits computer systems, notional amounts for NHS etc could just be posted across the board to all relevant accounts.

the UK is a thoroughly middling country when it comes to tax levels.

/thread.

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There is much evidence to show that people don't value things you get for free, so showing the actual value of things might help.

Too true. Look at all the threads on veterinary fees where people think they're being ripped off when actually they just have no idea how much medical care costs.
Op you might have private medical cover now but presumably you won't have it forever and will need care in the future as will your family. Your kids are getting a state education as well. That's what you're paying tax for.
I take all my overtime back as toil as my employer allows this. I'd rather have my time back than a little extra cash.

An alternative to giving people a social security bill of over 100K as a 21st birthday present would simply to be to divide the annual bill for spending on young and the old among the adults of working age, and add it to their account each year. Many might never earn enough to repay it, but it would clearly be their fair share of the social bill, whether they could afford it or not.

It doesn't matter that some people will have more than they can ever repay charged to their account, as what is charged and what they pay are two different things. The actual payment system can still be as progressive as we want it to be.