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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask what happens if you can't afford to do jury service?

257 replies

AvocadosBeforeMortgages · 04/09/2018 09:43

Let me start off by saying that I always thought I'd like to do jury service one day.

Now I've discovered that not only do my employers not pay you when you're on jury service, the rates courts pay you for loss of earnings are paltry - the sum I'd get for the first 10 days would be less than half what I'd actually lose, and rates from day 11 are still less than my wages so I couldn't actually afford to do it www.gov.uk/jury-service/what-you-can-claim

Can you refuse to do jury service on the grounds that you can't afford the loss of earnings? I'm single and have rent to pay, for context.

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 04/09/2018 12:38

I already decided that I simply wouldn’t respond if I was called up (as the letters are not sent recorded delivery).

I’m self employed (therapist) and couldn’t leave my clients for up to a month/year as it’s unethical/unsafe practice. I’d have to refer all of them on to other therapists leaving me literally from starting again building my own business. And also I couldn’t financially afford not to work - there is no insurance that covers for my average weekly salary.

HPLikecraft · 04/09/2018 12:38

I for example live in a very rural area- as do I. But courts requiring jury service aren't. So, find a nursery/childminder/holiday club/nanny near the court. Or somewhere

Oh, a nursery or child minder that will travel out from near court (12 miles away) to our rural area, collect DC from the village school and take them back out to town again?
Hmm, how do I choose from the hundreds available that will do that? Hmm

serbska · 04/09/2018 12:42

I think it is time we did away with jury service filled with 'the common man' and juries were made up of 3 or 5 trained legal professionals.

The general population is on the whole pretty stupid, and easily swayed by emotion not facts and evidence.

AltheaorDonna · 04/09/2018 12:44

I was called up when I h ad a young baby and a full time job, to the Old Bailey no less! I had to hang around in the canteen for a week before I was called to a case, and then the case itself lasted another week. They did let people off if they had a good reason. My work paid me in full, although I think they took the allowance I got. I seem to remember with the travel allowance and meal allowance I came up on top financially. Anyway, it was a fascinating process and I felt privileged to be a part of it. I was bloody glad though not to get called for a case that was going to last for months!

serbska · 04/09/2018 12:44

It's not possible to just pluck emergency childcare out of the air.

Well, it is.

www.emergencychildcare.co.uk/

pitapizzapie · 04/09/2018 12:44

If you have a school age child, then you do whatever the working parents in your school do. Or if every family has a SAHP, you ask them for a favour, or if everyone else has a granny that does it, you ask them for a favour.

If you live in a place where your child is the only pupil, then I understand. If you don't know/get on with any of the other parents where you live, you have bigger problems that jury service.

Most people would help out. Usually, you'd be back for school pick up anyway, so it would be asking your school age DC's friends to have them before school. If your DC have no friends, that's a whole different issue...

Pre-school kids can go in their usual care, or care near the court.

If you start from 'how do I get out of this', then you'll think one way. If you start from 'I have to do this, how do I sort the childcare problem', then you'll find a way.

Courts are near multiple childcare providers that will be perfectly adequate for NT children for 4 hours per day for 2 weeks. Get a grip.

DGRossetti · 04/09/2018 12:46

What happens if you’re disabled? Can they still call you up?

Of course. However, there's unlikely to be much reasonable adjustment for jurors. (there are for Witnesses, defendants and lawyers, of course). One of DWs support groups has a few stories of people being called for jury service, turning up in a wheelchair, and being told they're excused. Beyond mobility issues (vision problems, hearing problems, cognition problems) it's hard to say.

If you aren't careful enough, you could come away with the impression that the jurors are a bit of an afterthought.

FairfaxAikman · 04/09/2018 12:54

I've been permanently excused as I'm a journalist. DH was recently called, turned up and was discharged because the case was one I had previously covered prior to it reaching court and at the first hearing stage.

Plannergirl9 · 04/09/2018 12:58

I'm disabled and can't sit for long periods of time. I asked the court clerk about reasonable adjustments and was told it's not possible to change the way things are done ie how long periods day the jury sits for. I needed to get a letter from my doctor and I was excused from jury duty for life.

It's a shame as I do think the public has the responsibility to do jury service and I wanted to do it.

onetimeposter · 04/09/2018 13:03

I was excused on the basis of caring for a disabled child. I got the impression they wouldn't ask again.

onetimeposter · 04/09/2018 13:06

Actually I live on a council estate and you never seem to get the 'scally' people invited to do jury service. It always seems to be MC people or those in decent jobs. This was actually an observation by a neighbour!
I don't think anyone should have to do jury service, nor do I think it is a public responsibility. It is an old fashioned and archaic tradition.

Thesearmsofmine · 04/09/2018 13:07

I’m honestly not sure what I would do with my children. I have people I could leave them with in an emergency but I my older two are school aged but home ed and I don’t have someone to leave them with for an unspecified amount of time, possibly weeks or months and during that time they would also require educating.

Puggled · 04/09/2018 13:09

The second time I did jury service, they did ask if anyone would have difficulties doing a case that might last over two weeks. So they do at least try to consider the effects a long case would have on potential jurors.

onetimeposter · 04/09/2018 13:10

I would assume home ed would mean you were excusable arms.

BlueBug45 · 04/09/2018 13:11

@onetimeposter the "scally" people as you refer to them probably have call up letters that "go missing" on the post. From my friends' who have done jury service they say they are definitely some people serving on them who are from poorer backgrounds.

pitapizzapie · 04/09/2018 13:13

As above, they check before putting anyone on a potentially long case.

I don't think home ed-ing should excuse you, I'm afraid. Unless the kids have SEN, surely you've got an idea of what you would do with them if you were in hospital suddenly, or had to do jury service? If not, maybe this thread serves as time to make a contingency plan? When you decide to HE, you think about these things?

onetimeposter · 04/09/2018 13:13

Blue we call each other scallies round here. It wasn't a value judgement!

Perhaps so but they are persistent with the letters-you can get fined for not replying so doubt they will accept them just being lost

I think the worst bit must be not being able to talk about it to anyone, particularly the more harrowing things. It is a heavy burden to put on someone who, by simply being born, is forced to take part in that.

onetimeposter · 04/09/2018 13:17

When you decide to HE, you think about these things
Only on MN are women expected to predict absolutely everything in the future before they have a kid.
Might need a second kids club in the holiday when they're 6
Need to know how I'll pay for a technology which doesn't exist yet when they're 15
Then plan education just on the off chance, you are called to jury service
Get real-as if people think about all these things!
Most people are relatively financially stable in a relationship, have sex, celebrate a blue line and hope for the best. Can't really imagine jury service being a topic of post coital relations.
And until you know the educational needs of your child, you can't really plan their schooling either Biscuit

Thesearmsofmine · 04/09/2018 13:18

pita as I have already said I have people I could leave them with in an emergency. I have a husband who would have to take time off from work if I was in hospital as he did when I was in hospital when ds2 was ill but that time off would be unpaid and so if he had to do that we would be left struggling to pay our rent/bills. I don’t think that anybody should be put in that situation for jury service.

I would happily do it once my children are older and I do feel it is important but in some circumstances it can potentially make people’s lives very difficult.

Redglitter · 04/09/2018 13:20

I already decided that I simply wouldn’t respond if I was called up

Fair enough so long as you're prepared for the fine & possibly being arrested

BuggerOffAndGoodDayToYou · 04/09/2018 13:25

It's not possible to just pluck emergency childcare out of the air.
Well, it is.
www.emergencychildcare.co.uk/

That website doesn’t say how much it costs but a friend of mine is a childminder and charges £10 an hour (actually quite cheap for around here). When DH did jury service it was in Central London and he was out of the house from 8.30 to 17.30 (including travelling time) so childcare would cost at least £90 per day but the maximum you can claim from the court for loss of earnings and childcare is £64.95 per day. So someone with children will actually be quite heavily out of pocket.

pitapizzapie · 04/09/2018 13:31

But one of the major 'cons' of HE is the putting all your eggs in your own basket in terms of childcare, a bit like choosing a nanny over a nursery,' you don't have much back up. HE is not the usual choice, so if you do it, surely you'll have thought about 'what if I can't do the care/educating'. It's like when people who are self employed get surprised they don't get holiday pay- well, no, that's part of being self employed, pros and cons.

I agree, the reimbursement should be greater. But I don't agree that anyone should be able to get out of it, unless they are mentally or physically incapable, and there should be reasonable adjustments for the latter.

abacucat · 04/09/2018 13:36

Most people want to get out of Jury service, so no you can normally defer, but have to do it. Have been on a Jury twice, but both times only for a few days. Someone I worked with was on a jury for 6 weeks on a harrowing child abuse case. That is what I would dread.

HoppingPavlova · 04/09/2018 13:45

Going to be really blunt. If you can’t get out of it via typical avenues then you only need to devote one day, the first for jury selection. Just express that you are racist/believe all men are racist/in your experience a lot of women are mad and will off their significant other at the first opportunity/insert whatever other scenario suits the case here. You will be out by the end of the first day.

The only people who do jury duty are those that genuinely want to do it or those who are too stupid to get out of it.

LaurieFairyCake · 04/09/2018 13:46

RedGlitter

That’s only likely if they knew you’d received it. They don’t send them recorded delivery.