To ask in your very honest opinion what age do you think it's too late to retrain as a doctor?

[VladmirsPoutine]

Considering you'd then need time to specialise and become a consultant?

Please be as frank as you can because I just want to know. I'm considering this path and I'm early 30s. I'd have to start from scratch basically. Though I have 3 degrees none of them are science related and I've mainly always worked in communications/writing/advertising and that sort of thing.

Two friends who are psychiatrists. Both my age (36). Neither are yet consultants, as increasingly it's important to have done clinical research in order to get a consultant position. So both did PhDs alongside clinical work in hospitals, working mental shifts. One won the royal college of psychiatrists trainee of the year award. He's been published in the Lancet. He's still not a consultant yet. So you may need to factor in a further research MD or PhD (as well as royal college exams) into your overall training

And obvs NHS MH funding is on its knees

YY to Adam Kay and Rachel Clarke's books

I think Adam Kay's should he mandatory reading for anyone considering applying to med school!

I know a couple if people who have retrained at 50 due to various circumstances. The expected future state retirement age is currently 68 and I expect that the age will increase. So once trained, you could have 10+ years of working. I saw a programme about people who lived in China or Japan where it seems common for retirees to volunteer to work. However, to do this type of job, you probably need to be hard working and have a calling for that profession. Do you have that ?

I know a guy who retrained as a doctor at the age of 44 after 25 years working on the line in a car factory.

He is now a consultant psychiatrist specialising in geriatric mental health.

I believe there is a medical school that specialises in taking in students who have non-relevant degrees.

I am not in psych but am a doctor and meet a lot of junior doctors. I have met 3 late entrants to medicine - I'd say one was v happy, one fitted in and made it work, one clearly was finding it not what they had expected.

The first found a specialty he loved (mine), quickly decided not to be a consultant, and then built up a career as a specialty doc so bypassing all the exams stages and going straight to what he loved, but accepting he wasn't going to do certain things. He is enjoying himself.

Second has gone into GP. GP is generally not a happy place, she works part-time, has avoided the stress of a partnership, again went the quickest route to being secure and has made it work.

Third was from a science background, felt he wanted to 'be the one making the decisions and seeing the patient, not just in the backroom'. It's obvious that he is finding reality - a lot of time of the phone and doing tedious crap underwhelming. Who knows?

Even for my specialty, a friend spent 3 years in limbo waiting to get on the registrar training scheme and with no guarantee it would be where she lived. But that was her only chance to be a consultant - it's madness.

@quickquickslowslow Christ on a speed boat - I don't know if I want to do that! And plus my work and studies have always been in the creative fields. I'd seriously need to start from scratch with everything and I'm not sure I'll like or understand science.

Ask me to write you 500 words about philosophy or EU politics - I can do that within the hour. Ask me to explain science or something then I'll come to you next week.

I'd seriously need to start from scratch with everything and I'm not sure I'll like or understand science.

Ask me to write you 500 words about philosophy or EU politics - I can do that within the hour. Ask me to explain science or something then I'll come to you next week.

It sounds like with the greatest of respect, medicine is not for you

It is a science subject. It requires deep knowledge of chemistry and biology. You have to be excellent at maths to make calculations on the fly

Your med school is science
Your foundation years are science
Your royal college exams are science
Your PhD or MD is scientific research

If you don't like science, why would you pick a scientific specialty where some of the students with the top grades in chemistry and biology A-level get rejected from med school? I'm a little baffled about what you think is involved in medical training to become a consultant psychiatrist?

If you can't explain the science, then I would go back to why specifically a consultant psychiatrist, rather than any other person working in mental health.

Because often the role of the psychiatrist is to bring the science bit (OK massive simplification). But their bit as prescriber is far more about the science than anyone else.

Could you do what you want more quickly and more enjoyably in another mental health profession?

Let me just put it this way, you can be 40 with or without a medical degree. You're still gonna be 40. Your choice but honestly I'd just say do it if you really want to, otherwise before you know it you'll be 60 and wishing you had done it.

What exactly do you want to do? I'm not sure you understand the job of a consultant psychiatrist!

It depends on what you want to specialise in. I’m in a surgical specialty (ophth) which will take me 15+ years (6 years med school, 2 years foundation, 8 years specialty, 1-2 years fellowship) before I can even dream of applying for a consultant position. I’m 34 and on to fellowship next but it hasn’t been easy! There is no guarantee of getting one either though if you are post-CCT it is much more a given.

I have had to rotate around different hospitals which is tough though I managed to buy a house in my base city. Many broken nights for oncalls which overall are not that bad.

Expensive post graduate exams, courses and conferences. Extra time to enhance your surgical skills and using private time to increase your surgical numbers with fierce competition for theatre time not being uncommon. Long long nights writing publications and presentations and you have to win prizes all to enhance your CV for that all important consultant post.

It’s not like this in all specialties and GP would be much quicker. Some like mine are just that competitive, probably due to scope for private practice but this is the reality of life as junior doctor. I would think carefully if you want a family too.

What Im saying is that you could easily be 40-45 plus before you are a senior dr (GP or consultant) and this is when most are winding down

sheepisheep and quickquickslowslow make excellent points. I work in hospitals and wouldn't train as a doctor today regardless of age, absolutely not.

My DM qualified as a doctor when she was 43, she's now a GP.

Do it, life is too short to spend wishing you were doing something else.

Most surgeons are hitting their peak at 45, surely. A mostly male profession.
I wonder if there is a gendered difference here-women seem to be much more time limited with their careers than men.

I'd seriously need to start from scratch with everything and I'm not sure I'll like or understand science.

Everyone saying OP should go for it - my question is why you say you want to retrain as a Dr, when you say you've no interest in science?

What do you think a consultant psychiatrist does?

Why are you considering medical school if you don't want to study the necessary qualifications to get you to an equivalent level to A-level chemistry and biology?

I'm somewhat baffled tbh!

My DM qualified as a doctor when she was 43, she's now a GP

Depending on how long ago that was, medicine and medical training is likely very different now. Friends I know who trained 10 years ago say they wouldn't last out now to consultant level.

What do you think a consultant psychiatrist does?

I work with psychiatrists day in, day out. To be fair, it's easy to forget that they have such extensive medical / surgical / physical health training.

I started at 18 and at 40 and will not be a consultant til I am 43. It’s a surgical specialty and I have done some research, management and had two children , worked as an 80% trainee. Honestly - it’s possible to do what you want to do but I would not recommend it.

It’s doable but my advice is don’t do it. I dodged this particular bullet years ago- I was on a grad entry course. I realise how incredibly lucky I am that it didn’t work out

It might be more straightforward to train as a psychotherapist
nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/job-profiles/psychotherapist#entry-requirements

You know that the majority of the training to be a doctor is science right? Biology and chemistry. Only once you are a doctor can you train in Psychiatry.

I think a psychologist would suit you better as you don’t need to do medical training.

Medicine = science. Lots of lots of science.

I recently became a consultant in a hospital speciality, but I did the traditional route by entering med school at 18 and doing all my post grad exams before I had children.

Even with all the energy of my 20s behind me it was hard. Fucking hard. Rapid swaps between Day and night shifts. The burden of responsibility I was too clinically inexperienced for. Overworked and understaffed Rotas. Not knowing where I’d be working in one months time. Always having to say no to family meet ups/friends birthdays/weddings because the Rota wasn’t accommodating enough.

Now I’m at the end of the tunnel, the light is definitely here. But Jesus, it was a gruelling journey.

(I’m 37 now by the way and never worked LTFT during my training- so has taken almost 20yrs to reach this point)

A friend's mother is currently at med school, she's 49. Her late husband had a knighthood and she is very well off so she has a lot of support.