To think that some married women on here think they are better than unmarried women?

[malificent7]

After reading the thread about legal rights, marriage and birth certificates I was struck by the patronising way in which some married women spoke to those who are cohabiting or not married.
True married women have better rights but it was the way in which the relationships of unmarried women were dismissed as lesser and these women were being sneered at.

Someone told a woman who had been cohabiting that her relationship meant nothing and that if you are not married you are single.
REALLY? I am not married but I am not single. I don't even live with the guy but why is my relationship seen as less valid? Some married people hate each other and don't have the guts to leave. Some of the best love affairs involve people who live miles apart.
I don't like the fact that I have to put single on a form . Why can I not be in a relationship?

Ok, If you are married you have some legal rights and security that the unmarried have but shouldn't we question this? Why should we make vows especially if you don't believe in the laws of marriage? Also, it was originally a religious ceremony..I don't believe in God and I am not a commodity to be given away by my dad to another male.

Does it lead to stability? My dp is divorced. The marriage vows didn't stop things from falling apart.

Marriage can be a great thing but the tone in the last thread was old fashioned and practically berated women for not managing to get a man to marry them. Surely there has to be other options if you don't believe in marriage ? It is a patriarchal tradition after all to do with male prperty rights. Also, many men want pre nuptuals as they are now wise to gold digging wives.

I think you can have some marriages which have less love than some cohabiting relationships. Why is one type of relationship more valid? I find it all very old fashioned.

Judging by the number of men who don't leave their wives a dime on divorce, I am not convinced by the stability argument.

I have seen the sneering attitude you refer to and it's unpleasant. That said marriage does provide legal protection and at least some degree of financial security (particularly for women who take a career break) which you wouldn't get otherwise.

The sneering attitude isn't helpful at all but the sentiment behind it is correct. You do have more security and legal rights if you're married, particularly if things do later fall apart. There is the option of a civil ceremony these days with no religious overtones and even for a church wedding you don't have to be given away, can omit parts of the service if you so choose, and can leave out parts of the vows if you'd rather not have them. I often remind DH that I made no vow whatsoever to obey him

'Single' in legal terms simply means never married. It's not meant to be dismissive of any relationship(s) you're in, it just means unmarried.

It might be patriarchal a few decades ago or in a different culture, and I dont think its religious either these days. Personally I believe in marriage and if my DH hadn't wanted to marry me which to me was just declaring in front of people we care about and the law that we are one, I'd be very disappointed. We made a vow to be one until we die and that means something to us. You believe what you want to believe but you sound as bad and patronising as the people you accused.

You can have a marriage without having a wedding. My cousin and her partner got married in her every day clothes with two witnesses and went straight home afterwards, no one even knew they were married until months afterwards when it came up in conversation at another cousins wedding about who would be next and they said not them because they were already married, they did it purely as a legality.

Is it not more of a legal argument rather than a moral one?

Yes, I've noticed it too. Given that marriage is by far less common than co-habiting and the divorce rate is 42% it's a bit odd really.

I've never thought that married women saw themselves as superior on mumsnet. People have pointed out some ways unmarried women in relationships are leaving themselves open to big financial problems should their partner die or their relationship break down.

I do think if you're not living with your partner then realistically your relationship won't be seen as seriously as a married couple.

You are trying to justify your relationship status at the expense of others.

Legally, you are 'single' , there is no legal status of 'in a relationship'.

It is a patriarchal tradition after all to do with male prperty rights. Also, many men want pre nuptuals as they are now wise to gold digging wives.

The latter sentence, unless I'm missing an irony detector, seriously undermines the self-righteousness of your post.

Fwiw, I have no time for sneering, nor do I have time for people arguing that the state should enter you into a contract against your will. There are times when boxes should certainly list partners as an option and others where it is legally irrelevant and thus not necessary to know. I am ruthlessly practical about marriage: it is a legal contract, not a love contract, and thus entirely reflects the former (legal status) not the latter (status of affection).

However, I do think one can't simultaneously decry marriage as patriarchal while accusing some women of being 'gold-diggers' (which is, of course, a loaded and oft-misogynistic term used to shame women).

If you're a higher earner, as a woman, you'd be a fool to marry.

Some women, marriage offers protection. Others, it offers even greater vulnerability.

The sneerers just show they don't understand that sometimes, women can be better off and better "protected" unmarried.

I don’t think it’s sneering so much as a genuine worry that others might not realise the legal status of their situation which is sometimes put across a bit bluntly. I don’t think they’re saying your relationship isn’t valid, but that that is how the law would view it.

There are so many myths (common law spouse etc etc) that I think people see this as a public service in a way. Proliferating correct info, and for that I can forgive them a misjudged tone.

There was a v shocking documentary recently about Islamic marriages and how many wives did not know they weren’t legally married and people not telling them and them having to pursue men through civil courts (not family). It was heart wrenching!

I'm not married - but I do get a bit puzzled tired of people complaining about not having the rights of marriage without getting married .

Yes. If you aren’t married but have lived together for 40 years and brought up each other’s kids you AREN’T a step parent

www.channel4.com/programmes/the-truth-about-muslim-marriage

I was thinking this when reading MN the other day OP. I definitely see it. Getting married doesn't make people less likely to cheat/be abusive/whatever. I do think being married can make couples work harder when they hit rough patches, but can also make people more likely to stay in bad relationships though.

My boyfriend would like to get married one day. I'm not too fussed in general and I make more money/have savings so would lose out in the event of a divorce. We have a child each but if we have one together I'd definitely marry him to financially protect him. Not that I wouldn't be fair but he deserves that peace of mind, especially as we'll likely split parental leave.

If marriage were not legally important, the LGBT community would not have lobbied so long and hard for parity.

Lets face it, you wouldn't enter into any other agreement with such long term financial implications without there being a legal contract in place.

I hear you op. For a site pushing strong, independent, equality seeking women, nothing cries so needy as marrying a man for financial security. It is so very puzzling.

I would assume the term single was being used in the legal sense. I don't believe that most people who are married think any less (or have any specific feelings either way) about those who are not. Obviously you have read some comments that upset you and sherry comments aren't ok. I would also say there's arguably just as many anti marriage sneery comments flying around though. Those aren't ok either.

Given that marriage is by far less common than co-habiting and the divorce rate is 42% it's a bit odd really.

The divorce rate is lower than it ever has been! less than 10 in 1,000 divorce, so where did you get your 42% from ?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12011714/Divorce-rate-at-lowest-level-in-40-years-after-cohabitation-revolution.html

Married women aren’t “better” than unmarried women (or men for that matter).

But there are legal reasons it’s married or single on forms. For example if you are married your DH is next of kin etc etc They don’t care about your living arrangements they just care about the formalities.

If you are married and hate each other, you are still legally next of kin.
You can be in a decades long, blissfully happy partnership but you are not next of kin or affected by any of the other legalities surrounding marriage.

The forms are t their to assess your romantic status, just your legal one,

I've not noticed it. I always thought if you're married you're in the minority. If you're in a first marriage, more so.
I'm the only one in my social circle and family who is married.

I'm singlenotsingle

The thing is, unmarried couples, are far more likely to split up, even when factors like length of relationship/homeownership etc are taken into account.

All the evidence points to DCs of 2 parent families having better long term outcomes than those of single parent families - ergo being married is a 'better' environment in which to raise children.

Obviously it cannot be helped sometimes, pregnancies come along unplanned and we make the best of it, but yes, if you are planning have DCs, then being married is 'better' than not.

Sneering is unpleasant, I'd agree, but the idea that marital status is completely irrelevant just isn't borne out by the facts when taken at a population level.

I had both of my kids before marriage, and I cba to get married; dh wanted it more than me as he thought it was 'nicer'. I said I'd marry him if we did it on Halloween thinking he'd refuse. Six year anniversary next month.