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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that some married women on here think they are better than unmarried women?

697 replies

malificent7 · 01/09/2018 22:44

After reading the thread about legal rights, marriage and birth certificates I was struck by the patronising way in which some married women spoke to those who are cohabiting or not married.
True married women have better rights but it was the way in which the relationships of unmarried women were dismissed as lesser and these women were being sneered at.

Someone told a woman who had been cohabiting that her relationship meant nothing and that if you are not married you are single.
REALLY? I am not married but I am not single. I don't even live with the guy but why is my relationship seen as less valid? Some married people hate each other and don't have the guts to leave. Some of the best love affairs involve people who live miles apart.
I don't like the fact that I have to put single on a form . Why can I not be in a relationship?

Ok, If you are married you have some legal rights and security that the unmarried have but shouldn't we question this? Why should we make vows especially if you don't believe in the laws of marriage? Also, it was originally a religious ceremony..I don't believe in God and I am not a commodity to be given away by my dad to another male.

Does it lead to stability? My dp is divorced. The marriage vows didn't stop things from falling apart.

Marriage can be a great thing but the tone in the last thread was old fashioned and practically berated women for not managing to get a man to marry them. Surely there has to be other options if you don't believe in marriage ? It is a patriarchal tradition after all to do with male prperty rights. Also, many men want pre nuptuals as they are now wise to gold digging wives.

I think you can have some marriages which have less love than some cohabiting relationships. Why is one type of relationship more valid? I find it all very old fashioned.

Judging by the number of men who don't leave their wives a dime on divorce, I am not convinced by the stability argument.

OP posts:
Crunchymum · 02/09/2018 00:07

I used to have someone at work make comments when I referred to my "MIL" ('did you get secretly married?' ) so I started referring to her as my "Children's paternal grandmother" and other wanky names....

MIL provides childcare so she used to come up in conversation at work!!

She isn't technically my MIL but 12 years and 3 kids down the line what is she???

Johnnyfinland · 02/09/2018 00:08

Surely the people on here who think high-earning women should stay unmarried to protect their assets are a bit hypocritical if they don’t advise the same high earning men, in that they encourage low earning women to marry so they’re entitled to their husband’s money. What would be a massive step forward is a societal shift to encouraging EVERYONE, from school age when you start doing social education, to strive to be financially independent whether they’re male or female? The fact that the burden is still on men to be the providers just reinforces patriarchal structures

MyOtherNameChangeIsBetter · 02/09/2018 00:09

These threads always depress me a tad. What about the women and men who know about the financial implications of not being married and want to marry, but the partners don’t want to?
I’m not going to leave my dp because he won’t marry me, I can’t force him to marry me, nor can I force him to write a will/ legal document to protect me. I’ve asked him to do this regularly for seven fucking years. We have a child together (unplanned, but very much loved and wanted) . He holds all the fucking cards, he owns the house etc. So I guess what I’m saying is rather than telling unmarried women how stupid we are for getting ourselves into this situation, how about telling us how we magically get ourselves out of it? You can’t make someone marry you.

RebelRogue · 02/09/2018 00:12

@caoraich but that's not the majority of unmarried women. A lot of them are unmarried,have kids ,are SAHM or the lower earning partner and a lot of them don't even have their name on the mortgage/house. If their partner leaves,they get left with the kids,no or low income,possibly homeless. Maybe CSA if the bloke actually bothers to pay. And the saddest bit? A lot of them put up with unspeakable abuse for fear of being on the streets with nothing.

I'm not married either..but I get it.

LeftRightCentre · 02/09/2018 00:14

So I guess what I’m saying is rather than telling unmarried women how stupid we are for getting ourselves into this situation, how about telling us how we magically get ourselves out of it? You can’t make someone marry you.

No, but you can walk away from someone who won't. If it's a dealbreaker for you, you end the relationship when it comes time where you feel you need to marry and they don't want it. You don't have children with a person who won't marry you and you want that. You don't go on to have more and more children if you do. You don't give up full time work and financial security for such a person, or move into their house. You put yourself first because if you don't love and respect yourself first, no one else will either.

caoraich · 02/09/2018 00:16

nakedscientist I presume if you're in England this was pre-2005? As at present there is no legal basis to allow anyone other than the patient to sign a consent form, indeed in any UK jurisdiction. If you were asked to do this then I would suggest getting in touch with the health trust or indeed the GMC as if it was a doctor who allowed this then it's a serious breach of the rules.

If someone can't consent (e.g. is in a coma, or is mentally unwell) then there are four ways to lawfully give treatment: 1. A ‘best interests’ decision made by the healthcare professionals - they can take into account of people who are with the patient at the time, but are under no obligation to do so and it doesn't really matter what relationship those people have to the patient.

  1. Where there's a welfare attorney already in place - they make the decision
  2. Following court proceedings where the Court of Protection has appointed a deputy
  3. mental health legislation (e.g. for psychiatric treatment against the person's will)
(obviously in the case of children this is different)
ichifanny · 02/09/2018 00:17

It’s not bout being better or having a better relationship it’s about having better legal protection and recognition and makes life much easier when shit hits the fan , I never thought I’d bother about being married but when I saw how risky it was financially having children I changed my mind , having a partner who you aren’t married to can’t replicate the legal protection you get from marriage end of story .

SchnitzelVonKrumm · 02/09/2018 00:18

@MyOtherNameChangeIsBetter I guess you can only ensure you can support yourself when the relationship ends (and I agree with a previous poster that all adults should do this, married or not). I don't think I'd plan to stay for the long-term with someone who cared so little for my security.

Oliversmumsarmy · 02/09/2018 00:18

Getting married doesn't make people less likely to cheat/be abusive/whatever

Not in my experience.

All bar one of the married couples we attended their weddings have split for all the reasons you have listed.

I think other married couples we know would love to walk out of the door and not come back but can't get a divorce because they can't afford to.
And for those that say you can get a divorce for £600 then you have to have both parties in agreement.

Redteapot67 · 02/09/2018 00:21

I do agree with you but if you thinking about your own relationship then it really won’t be on any legal footing unless you marry. Is your partner trying to persuade you it’s just as good not to marry? If so beware. It might be for him but if you have kids you’ll prejudice yourself for his benefit and have no protect in return. Being unmarried def suits a guy more than woman.

MrsTerryPratchett · 02/09/2018 00:21

I do feel for you MyOtherNameChangeIsBetter. But I wouldn't stay with someone who treated me like that. There's no real way to get yourself out of the situation. And an unplanned (but OBVIOUSLY wanted) child cements it.

Honestly, really, really reliable doubled-up contraception unless someone is willing to commit. Women do plan children with men who won't commit, and plan to give up work, and plan to live in houses they don't own. You didn't.

nakedscientist · 02/09/2018 00:22

akedscientist I presume if you're in England this was pre-2005? As at present there is no legal basis to allow anyone other than the patient to sign a consent form, indeed in any UK jurisdiction. If you were asked to do this then I would suggest getting in touch with the health trust or indeed the GMC
It was March 2013, at a large London Hispital.

I'm not going to get in touch with anyone, it was a life and death thing and they saved him!

PositiveVibez · 02/09/2018 00:23

Bob Mortimer was talking about this on his podcast the other week. he doesn't really believe in marriage, but when he had his heart attack, he married his partner as it was blatantly pointed out to him, that if he died, his long term partner would have a hard time claiming what she was entitled to.

He was very matter of fact about it. It hasn't changed their relationship, but give him peace of mind.

Is it not worth it just for that?

People who don't get married 'on principal' are a bit selfish imho. Especially where kids are involved. It makes sense and people who don't believe in it, should just see it as a business transaction of sorts.

Redteapot67 · 02/09/2018 00:25

My other name - in your position I would consider walking away.
You can’t make him.
But as other pp said you can protect yourself. It’ll be harder short term but much better in the long term.
You don’t have to end it for good. Just say to him - I want to get married - it’s a deal breaker if you don’t want that I can’t stsy with you

Redteapot67 · 02/09/2018 00:26

And try to identify what his concern is. The lack of writing a will would seriously worry me -it’s not like that would impact him! He’d be gone!

ichifanny · 02/09/2018 00:27

Exactly that positivevibez also things like inheritance tax are given a relief too , imagine having to stump up money for a house you were left in your partner of 40 years will because you weren’t married .

zsazsajuju · 02/09/2018 00:27

Re the pp who says if we are recommending higher earning women don’t get married then we should do the same to men, well I am not recommending anyone get married or not. What I am saying is that marriage does have financial benefits for all women nor does it provide “protection”. Get married if you both want but it does not benefit many women and most men financially. So pp should drop the stereotypes- marriage would only have caused me financial problems not Gien me any “protection”.

ineedtostopbeingsolazy · 02/09/2018 00:29

I had children unmarried and was a sahm I wasn't bothered about being married at first but then cottoned onto my position especially as the house was in his name.

I wanted to get married (also because of other things not only the money) he didn't particularly want to, he said he would give me everything if we split anyway and he'd never see me out of money or a home etc etc he couldn't understand when I said he thought like that now because we were in love but you don't feel that way in the middle of a separation!

But he did marry me because it was important to me and now we love being married, but he knows I would have left him if we didn't get married as I was in such a precarious position I would have to had made a life for myself with my own house and money.

CarolDanvers · 02/09/2018 00:29

YANBU, both on here and in RL.

SunnyintheSun · 02/09/2018 00:31

MyOtherNameChangeIsBetter - I feel for you too, tough situation. But I also hope more of these threads might give other women access to the information they need to make an informed choice and perhaps avoid that in the first place. As others have said, marriage was a dealbreaker for me - I wouldn’t buy a house, live together or have children without it and my DP knew that right from the beginning of our relationship.

CarolDanvers · 02/09/2018 00:33

In addition I also think there's a huge assumption on MN that there's going to be loads of "assets" that need to be split and the wife must protect herself in order to get her share. There were no assets in my marriage and marrying him just made a massive nasty split even worse. It was pointless to marry and I wish I had never bothered.

zsazsajuju · 02/09/2018 00:35

True also carol - and inheritance tax is not an issue for the vast majority of people in the country.

TheStopAndChat · 02/09/2018 00:35

Why are people shooting the messenger?

Stating the FACT that, legally, those unmarried ARE less should not cause such angst. Taking it personally is pointless and a little dramatic.

Stand behind your own decisions rather than look for reasons to be outraged that others wouldn't choose the same.

Fatted · 02/09/2018 00:36

I don't think it's about sneering. I think it's about trying to dispell a lot of myths surrounding things such as the idea of a common law spouse. I think you'll probably also find that most of the people on here who are keen to point out the legal advantages of marriage are unfortunately those who have learned the lesson the hard way.

Most people don't think about bad things happening in their lives and unfortunately it's not until they do that they realise just how little they are protected or entitled to things. At least if you are married it makes things a bit more straightforward.

SemperIdem · 02/09/2018 00:37

The thread was discussing the legality of marriage.

I’ve been married, technically still am, my relationship with my husband clearly wasn’t all that or we wouldn’t be separated discussing divorce. So no, I don’t think that being married makes anybodies relationship better or more valid than someone who has chosen to not marry. However, I simply cannot understand how having children with someone has become viewed as less of a commitment than marriage - which is a straightforward legal contract between two parties.

And Crunchy - she isn’t your mother in law. The “in law” bit refers to being related by law.