To be p*ssed off that no option for cohabiting/long-term relationship exists on maternity notes?

[BillieBryson]

I'm newly pg with DC#2, and today had my booking appointment with midwife. Perhaps it's the hormones, but I felt particularly enraged this time round when I forced to choose 'single' as my marital status as the only other option was 'married'. I've been with OH for 12 years FFS! Why, in 2018, when a considerable proportion of couples choose not to marry, is there no recognition of this? Doesn't this also artificially inflate statistics for single mothers (not that there is anything wrong with that of course)?

You have missed the bit where women can have penises and if you state otherwise woe be tide you

Can they produce viable sperm?

I am quite surprised at this, when were their forms drafted, 1951? Especially as when I was pregnant they told me it was more usual for most mothers these days to be unmarried.

I can see why they’d ask if you were “married/living with partner” as it’s maybe useful to know that the couple live together but not just the marital status

Ah just seen about PR. That makes sense, I hadn’t really thought about that. Maybe because I was married when I had my kids

*You have missed the bit where women can have penises and if you state otherwise woe be tide you

Can they produce viable sperm*

Absolutely they can.

Legally organisations can only ask for information they actually need. They don't need to know if you are living with someone. They do need to know who has legal parental responsibility.

I can't even remember if there was a box I had to tick or not regarding my marital status on my green notes. It's really quite a minor thing to be concerned over vs the pregnancy itself.

If you're happy with your relationship then does its official status on paperwork really matter?

I can’t remember what I ticked but if I am ever ask if I am married or single I always say married. Easier than getting into guff about not having any relatives.

No one really cares. Dp has been in and out of hospital for the past 2 years I have never had anyone question my marital status or ask for proof

Can I just ask, why people are afraid of marriage? I mean, if you've been together for 12 years and have 2 children, what are you holding out for? I understand my view is a conservative one, but if I was good enough to knock up but not to marry, I'd leave my partner. It means I'm not valued enough for him to give me and our children a commitment. Men I can kind of understand, but I simply don't understand women just, being ok with it. With no commitment to you or your children. It's just....a lack of respect from him to the woman imo. A Marriage gives you protection for your family, and even if you are listed on insurance, will, pensions etc, there is actually a lot more paperwork involved, where as only the Marriage Certificate needs to be seen. Why are women, especially mothers, not seeking commitment and security for themselves and their children? Are they waiting for someone better to come along?

Can I just ask, why people are afraid of marriage? I mean, if you've been together for 12 years and have 2 children, what are you holding out for

Not seen a happy or successful one yet.
Been with dp for over 40 years which is about 20 years longer than I have seen anyone elses marriage last

Oliversmumsarmy why do you think marriage would change that?

Marriage is just a contract

That's it

It has absolutely no bearing on how committed a partnership is emotionally and romantically

It is simply a change in legal status that affords a number of rights and responsibilities

Those rights and responsibilities may be perceived as benefits to some, for others it is more beneficial not to opt into these legal rights and responsibilities

Most of these rights and responsibilities have limited impact during the relationship itself - the vast majority only come to bear in the event of something going wrong - primarily death or the breakdown of the relationship

This legal status has some impact on certain considerations outside of these scenarios (eg PR, access to some financial benefits), but mostly the bit of paper is an insurance policy

It may not be an insurance policy that benefits you, in which case it's your right to choose not to take it out

Marriage is just a contract

Not exactly. Perhaps legally (the civil aspect).

For the religiously inclined Roman Catholic, its a sacrament (and the legal aspect is only a secondary consideration).

Not exactly. Perhaps legally (the civil aspect).

For the religiously inclined Roman Catholic, its a sacrament (and the legal aspect is only a secondary consideration).

In the eyes of the law that's irrelevant

Marriage is a civil contract under the law

You can have a religious ceremony and not be legally married

See all the Muslim women who didn't realise they weren't actually legally married

My Jewish wedding wasn't a legal wedding so we got legally married separately.

Unless you sign a marriage register, you're not married

Your sacrament is irrelevant for IHT or spousal maintenance

Not seen a happy or successful one yet

Not looked very hard have you? They are everywhere. Lots of unhappy cohabitees as well.
Do you think your relationship couldn't support marriage?

The court action my great uncle did when he set up his law firm i about 1892 was a breach of promise of marriage case - where someone took her fiance to court for reneging on the deal. Even in 1917 when he died it was unusual enough to be mentioned in his obituary. However these days in English law it not a contract athough it still has some of feeling of one. However it does give precise additional rights and responsibilities and plenty of people do not want those extended to unmarried couples including many women actually. It is an issue that divides the country. How many nights a week does your lover have to stay before they get claims on your money? What if he or she does not have a penis? What if you never have sex with them? It is not simple issues and we already spend so much on state benefits and pay such high taxes the idea we might spend even more often on people who choose not to work but could is not going to go down well with everyone.

@bananafish81

"Unless you sign a marriage register, you're not married"

I didn't and I am, but we were married in the US.

OK let me clarify, if you marry in the UK, under UK law, unless you've had a civil marriage and signed the official marriage register, you're not legally married

Marriages outside the UK clearly are subject to the laws of the given country. I presumed that didn't need stating, but for the purposes of clarity. In the UK a religious ceremony can only be a civil marriage if it's conducted by a licensed officiant and the relevant paperwork is signed

shark Interesting questions. Father could go to court to apply for pr. Not sure cost and how long it would take. Plus I’m sure last thing you would want to do when newly bereaved with a newborn to care for. Who consents for baby in interim or is just essential emergency treatment and things like consenting to vaccinations be put on hold until someone has pr.
Would be interesting to hear from a registrar what the procedure is to register child of a deceased unmarried woman. I’d assume woman’s nok?

Not a registrar but an ex supervisor of midwives who has dealt with such a scenario. You use your common sense/make a judgement call in the short term. The one time I had to make such a decision the partner had been with the woman during labour and it was obvious that they were very much a couple and that she referred to him as the baby’s father. The woman’s mother and sister arrived at the hospital and were very happy for the partner to be able to take the baby home and care for it.

If the situation had been different from above with either doubts about the relationship or the woman’s family protesting then the hospital would keep and care for the baby, ring the hospital safeguarding team and children’s services and let them sort it out, if necessary via the court.

Long term I believe that yes the courts can and will issue parental responsibility and assist with the father being allowed to register the birth.

It's possible to make an urgent application to the court for PR if necessary. Just not what you want to be doing if the situation is difficult enough to require it, iyswim.

Love all the 'facts' about co-habiters only lasting on average about 2 years. Of course they do! These couples probably then get married! I mean seriously, out of all the married couples you know I bet 99% of them lived together before they got married. I can't see how any facts about how short co-habiters relationships are can be collected properly.

*Not seen a happy or successful one yet

Not looked very hard have you? They are everywhere. Lots of unhappy cohabitees as well.
Do you think your relationship couldn't support marriage*

I don’t have to look very far when all around me people are getting divorced and those of us who didn’t bother are still together

God how odd where do you live? Basically everyone I know is happily married.

God how odd where do you live? Basically everyone I know is happily married.

Same here - the only divorced people I know are my parents

The majority of my friends, colleagues and family are happily married.

I’ve never understood the notion of there being failed marriages everywhere you look and plenty of happy co-habitating long-term couples in their place.

I know a few people who live with their partners but they are either engaged or both on the same page of marriage being on the cards.

The only woman I know who was ‘happily co-habitating’ ended up practically homeless with two children after her partner of 11 years started an affair and she was left with nothing. She was screwed over financially too.

Every woman in a long-term happy cohabitation situation with children believes “it will never happen to me” when it comes to affairs, splitting up, partners getting nasty etc etc but it’s a naive viewpoint.

There are a lot of shitty men out there who can turn and start treating the women awfully, there be abuse going on, having affairs etc which leads to the relationship breakdown, the difference is that married women and their children are protected if that happens whereas in general, unmarried mothers aren’t.

Getting married is wonderful - I personally would have felt quite hurt if my long-term partner hadn’t been willing to make that commitment to me. I wouldn’t have stayed with him because I would always feel that if he wasn’t prepared to commit to me I would always think I was being kept on hand until someone better come along.

However, if two people are on the same page and neither want marriage then their relationship can still happily flourish.

Different people want different things and whatever choices people make are what is best for them as a couple.

But as has been said, marriage offers a lot of security and protection that cohabitation doesn’t.

It's interesting. Round me I'm surrounded by very long relationship cohabiting relationships( family and friends),professional couples all pretty secure. Admittedly we may have more in common.The break ups have been married couples one of whom lectured me on not marrying(how it's the right thing to do) and showed off her wedding photos to me not long after I'd joined the toddler group. Her husband left her with nowt but debt. It wasn't an easy ride and she's far from secure. I will always teach my dc to focus on partner quality,their own security and not relationship status.

Agree with every word Queen. Gosh I am terribly conventional and dull but to me a good marriage is a bedrock to my life. Not bothered what others do but that's true for me (and pretty much everyone I know too).

The only people I judge are when I meet young ish couples through my work who have tiny babies and she is absorbed in the baby and stepping back at work etc and he is vociferous and smug about not being married (whether you married or not relevant in my work). I despise those men because they are taking from the women and providing no legal protection for their family.