My DS, university/ job/ career....

[Periperisauce]

For the last 3 months DS has been working in an office for a local company - basic junior admin stuff. Completing spreadsheet, typing up notes. He's been asked to do a few extra tasks too but it's all quite simple.

At first he quite liked it when it was all new. But now he's really bored. There's no prospects either, no natural way of advancing his career. The more senior people have worked there for 20 years plus, then it's loads of juniors. So no career path.

He said if he stays for a year, 5, he feels he will be in the same position. He's a very upbeat person normally, things don't upset him, he is always glass is half full. But currently he's really quite down. It's most unlike him.

We've talked about applying for another job. However he's not sure he enjoys the office environment. This is his first office job, he previously worked in customer facing roles in a bar/ restaurant which he enjoyed more but was never a long term plan.

When he was in 6th form he thought about teaching (and did some teaching practice in school) but the school directed him down the path of accountancy- he applied for a few degree apprenticeships but wasn't successful and took the bar job...He's not sure accountancy is for him though it was more the schools idea. And it's still office work which doesn't appeal.

I've asked about other careers, he really isn't a physical type so manual trades don't appeal.

He's going to speak to a family friend who is a teacher about his options and see what he can do. I don't know if he can try and get a place through clearing or if he will need to wait and apply next year but at least he can look into it.

This seems sensible to me, but my DP was quite dismissive of it and said he needs to stick to it, he's being ridiculous saying there are no prospects, and so on. So is DS being unreasonable in this?

I’m not sure about how NVQs compare to A-Levels in terms of university applications but I’m sure someone here will. Are there any NVQ courses on offer that he likes the look of? Did he enjoy business studies A Level ? Presumably that’s why school encouraged him towards accountancy ?

I think sometimes people who don’t have a clear idea of what they’re interested in do benefit from working for s few years before going to university. Perhaps if he doesn’t have a clear idea right now then he could get a job in something related to education like a teaching assistant or working in another setting with kids, like a museum or somesuch, and giving it a couple of years with the intention of applying for training courses / uni after that ?

I would look at some of the brewery/hotel management training type roles - he will get a taste of everything and its very active. It will also help fix for him what he is interested in because of the variety - 3 to 6 mths for the first office job won't really matter in the long run.

Nephew was pushed towards accountancy (mainly as he had no direction) and hated it, he then swayed to statistics and data analysis and loves it. Found more diverse opportunities and started in a charity sector and now works in politics. He had to take a foundation year though.

Unfortunately it looks like he doesn't have the grades for Teach First. And the lack of science means he can't do a teaching degree either. Times have changed as I can clearly remember a teacher at my secondary telling how he had 3 goes at English O level and still didn't pass.

So it looks like he's wasting his time looking at uni or similar for teaching. Not sure what he can do now really? He definitely would have no interest in manual, practical work, and he's not enjoying being in an office.

Skipped through posts so somoen else may have corrected the Teach First post. You need a degree to do teach First. There still is not a route into teachign without a degree : the apprenticeships under discussion / juts beginnning are level 7 apprenticeships.

Interested to know why a school put a child off teaching!! We cna be our own worst enemies...

Did they have solid reasoning for this?

I did wonder about hotel/ pub management but the minimum age seems to be 21+. Although I suppose that's only a year away.

I think because he enjoyed business studies (actually he didn't exactly, just found it easy!) the school said he should go down the accountancy path.

Although as it turns out they'd already scuppered him from teaching by not letting him resit his science.

Lots of misleading advice about teaching here.

He cannot go onto any of the routes linked to without a degree first. he can do various degrees with QTS . Lots of unis offer Primary BEds with QTS or the wider Education Studies degrees. His A Levels on paper are not good enough but there have been so many unconditionals this year that he may be OK. And he has got an AS, even if it is a low grade. His experience will also help him.

Check about the science GCSE requirements: I am not sure that is accurate, but it would certainly disadvantage him at primary if his science knowledge was poor.

He got a B and D at A level, so his grades weren't great. He's a clever boy but struggles with exams. He got his best grade in the subject where it was a mix of exam and coursework. He only did 2 A levels because school rules are you can only continue if you get a C or above in your AS levels, and in his third subject he got below that so had to drop it.

I would say with those grades, university isn't a good investment.

But some kind of apprenticeship, or further training and qualification would be a good idea rather than an 'office job' with no clear path.

It is SO hard for teenagers to work out what their options and future path might be.

I thought clearing had closed now?

I agree 3m is not long enough and that he is expecting a bit much to have a job he enjoys at 18 with no skills or experience to speak of.

There is office work which is very mundane but there is also office work that can be interesting and motivating. He should not write off office work based on one position.

Could he look at doing an undergraduate degree with the Open University? They have courses which are the equivalent of maths, science and English GCSEs and you don't need A levels to do it. Plus he can mix and match his subjects to suit his interests and do it full time if he wants to.

I'd said to DS that subject to the conversation he has with our teacher friend today it might be with calling some universities to see if he can get a place even though his grades are low. Nothing ventured etc.

I've just read something that says you can't become a teacher without science (so not necessarily that you have to have it for the degree although clearly that's preferable) ...could he redo a science GCSE at the same time as a degree?

What about something customer facing but with a responsibility and a career - things like the police, or being a paramedic? Both can be done after an access diploma which it sounds like he will need if he doesn't have the right GCSEs?

What about BTECs and vocational, part time study for something he enjoys? University isn't the only route.

If he wants to work with kids he could do a bit of volunteering in his spare time to see if he really likes it.

It seems really poor practice from the school to allow him to do two A Levels only, which seems neither here nor there. Surely he could have done a third A Level in another subject?

I have been checking and it is the case for all the primary education courses I can find that you need science at C and above. The issue is his application will be rejected without it.

Science resits are unusual because of the amount of content. There are otehr dgrees such as youth and community work , youth justice, education studies and so on which might also appeal.

What he needs to consider is he is also not good at science. When I did my 3 week primary placement (year 3!) during my PGCE there was loads of science and I felt very underskilled and I have biology at AS type level...

Secondary business teaching might be a better long term plan?

Advising kids on their options was what I used to do for a career, until quite recently. A few thoughts

• I wouldn't write off all jobs that take place in an office. Being an office junior must be very boring once you've got the hang of it; I'd hate that but quite like my rather more advanced office job

• I agree that he can't stay where he is long term, but I also wouldn't advise leaving until he has something to go to. Leaving because he's bored isn't an option in the adult world! Doing this sort of work for a few months will remind him of why he is going to uni (if indeed he does) - to avoid being in mind numbing jobs for the rest of his life! I know 6 months of bar work did me the world of good before I went to university.

• Unfortunately I think the school misadvised him when they told him to apply for degree apprenticeships and not put in a UCAS application. DAs are so intensely competitive (often 100 apps per place) that I always advised people to put in a UCAS application as well, so that they had a back up option.

• Technically he could apply via Clearing, but I wouldn't advise it because

(a) at this time of year you simply don't get the full choice of courses that would normally be available (b) he doesn't know what subject he wants to do (c) any decision would be rushed, with no opportunity to go to open days etc. He would be much better off taking a gap year (or two!) and working out what he wants to do subject-wise, attending some open days (see www.opendays.com/calendar/ - he will need to crack on with visits if he wants to apply for 2019 entry) and putting in an application before 15th Jan for next year.

• I would agree with others that BA/BSc + PGCE will give more options for the future than a BA/BSc with QTS degree. A PGCE is not necessary for a teaching career; he could consider the Schools Direct or Teach First routes for instance.

• Working as a TA is a good option if he wants to dip his toes in the world of becoming a teacher, but as a long term career he will never be well paid as a TA.

• As he struggles with exams but is much better at coursework, he should look at degrees that are primarily coursework. Even for the same subject, this will vary from uni to uni.

• As he only has 2 A Levels, I would strongly advise emailing each admissions team prior to application to see if they would be able to consider his application. You always have to read between the lines with the responses - it will never be a flat out yes or no - but it will hopefully prevent avoidable no-hope applications, and in other cases he may be pleasantly surprised. Over the last few years it has very much become a buyers market - universities are so desperate for students that they will often accept students significantly below their stated entry requirements, which is one of the reasons I say to email first.

• He may like to consider doing a Foundation Degree. They're usually more career-focussed / hands-on, and can be topped up to a full BA / BSc with an additional year of study (usually still three years in total). They do also tend to have lower entry requirements.

He's not 18 he's 20.

The job he's doing is boring. Every day is the same and that won't change. I can see how that is completely dispiriting. I certainly wouldn't want to be in that position.

I'm trying to help him work out a way forward. I think he needs to leave. DO says he needs to stay and put up with it to get some experience (of what?)

So it's a question of leave or stay.

And if he leaves, or plans to leave, what then?

In terms of apprenticeships most of the office ones are minimum wage and basically the same shit he's doing now for less pay! Unless he does something like an accounting apprenticeship etc but he was unsuccessful at applying for those previously. And he's not sure it's what he wants to do.

Then there's teaching/ teaching assistant etc. Maybe if our friend can secure him a TA role he can do that and redo science for the next year and apply for a uni place for 2019?

I don't know.

It is really bad practice not to allow someone to continue on to full A Level with a D at AS. This ahs pretty much vanished now as ASs are -more or less- defunct and the issue of that grammar school excluding kids and massaging results highlighted this issue. We take students inot year 13 so long as thye have passed year 12 : may not be the tough love some students need, in all honesty. But the school should have offered him/ pushed him towards something else!

Hey ho! Bit late for that knowledge now!

He could do something like Hospitality and Event Management, if he enjoyed the bar work and customer facing roles.

The last bit sounds a plan. Lots of our young TAs go into teaching. There are equivalents to science GCSE so he should check those out.

Please don't encourage him into teaching unless he knows what it would be like, does some work experience / volunteering and is still passionate about doing it.

Not all office and admin work is the same. He might enjoy a fast pace front facing role in the charity sector.

The school may do TA apprenticeships! If so, it will be their responsibility to get his science up to scratch : they would look at him as a future recruitment to teaching investment.

He would be unlikely to get a TA role without experience, which is why I suggested the volunteering. But if you have a contact who could get him that sort of job then go for it, it will at least give him a flavour of whether he wants to do that kind of work.

Teachers aren't career advisers and frankly tend to be academia-centric.

You say the bar/restaurant work "was never a long term plan" but hospitality is a far broader career option than you might think. My mother did bar work as at the time licensing hours meant it fitted roughly with school hours and evenings/weekends. She ended up being a manager, I've friends with 2 of their children working in hospitality different routes. Their son has gone chef apprenticeship route and their daughter went to university and got I think a business & hospitality degree, then got a graduate management position within a chain of hotels. She's now some sort of troubleshooter who goes in to their less well performing hotels and shakes things up, she loves it!

There's also tour operators, again from ground level in the holiday shops up to senior management negotiating their package deals contracts.

Uni can be great for not only qualification but stretching wings and getting life experience - various non-degree related roles at uni can lead to career paths too. A fellow alumni of mine who was a student rep at uni is now working in a senior student support role, something she hadn't considered beforehand.

While accountancy isn't for him it's absolutely not a dying profession! For as long as we live in a capitalist society accountants will be needed.

There are VERY few careers (as opposed to jobs) that don't involve long hours and weekends now - even many office jobs are starting to do these hours.