Cancel the Notting Hill Carnival!

[Witchofwisteria]

AIBU. This year police have confiscated 49 knives and 70 offensive weapons total, including ACID and stun guns plus one stabbing. Over 400 people were arrested, up from 313 last year and I am starting to wonder when enough will be enough.

The streets are left in a state after the event and the cost to taxpayer is astronomical. I feel like the Notting hill carnival has lost its way and turned into a breeding ground for opportunistic thugs. The thought that someone was wondering round with ACID, willing to throw it into a crowd and scar however many tens of people it sprayed on is beyond sick. We are quite happy to say terrorists are a major threat to Londoners but these groups are a MUCH worse threat to our daily lives and it's just too risky to have this event when we know it's going to attract these nasty individuals and gangs.

I'm totally not a fuddy duddy and appreciate that things like rubbish being left and dirty streets are always going to happen with big public festivals (like Brighton Pride) but Notting hill is just seeming to get more sinister each year.

Time to cancel the festival for 1 year, sit down and re think how this could be made into a ticketed festival in 2020. The price of the ticket will help pay for the extra policing and security, fencing and security around the cordoned off area and contribute towards charities the festival supports. Think Hyde park concerts in the park type event, we need to keep people safe.

Also in 2016 there were 5 serious stabbings that the official report said could have easily been murders.
But I repeat, no other event would be allowed to take place under conditions carnival does. Other events when they get to a crowded stage either are forced by police to become ticketed, or are forced to move elsewhere. That is because so many people in a relatively small space is dangerous.
Carnival is treated totally differently because of the race element.

Close isn't actual, as my mum used to say "A miss is as good as a mile". But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

@Bluelady the proof would only come after moving it sadly. Although I would of thought it might be a no brainer that security checking everyone entering would stop knives being taken in and therefore make everything safer for everyone.

Not read the whole thread, and not been to NHC but, I was really surprised at the size of it, a million people go, 11 times bigger than Glastonbury. Biggest festival in Europe. I have a friend who works in a police support capacity on NHC and it’s his most stressful weekend of the year. I don’t think that cancelling it would be good, it’s such a significant part of summer, but how do you keep the access, the party, the original aims and message, but kick out the criminals?

I went to Glastonbury the year before the fence went up, it wasn’t safe, it felt intimidating at times, but in moments thousands of people coming together felt amazing. Now the festival is completely different and certainly the 2 years after the fence it had lost a lot of diversity which made it less than it was and it felt it had moved from Eavis’ inclusive ideals, even though he’d done much to try to keep access for a range of people.

I love that our country can have these events that celebrate our mixing pot of rich cultures, I'm white and proud of that too, as I'm sure any race is proud.

That said I wish NHC just felt safer, it does unfortunately attract a dark undertone. My husband worked the carnival for the first 8 years of his policing career, I knew him from the 2nd year and every year, every single damned year he would come home black and blue after being attacked. One year a young lad went round with a used hypodermic needle and stabbed my husband and we had a very long wait to get him the health all clear. He's had bruises, black eyes, scrapes and he says it feels literally like there are gangs of young men who are just waiting for a copper to get into a vulnerable position so they can attack. Now it may be that 98% of the attendees don't do this and would be appalled but as the wife of a serving officer the idea of him at the carnival again fills me with fear and dread. This shouldn't be the case, he should be able to go and police it and enjoy this celebration but instead the police feel like the weekend is just about them surviving it in one piece.

In many ways it's great that it's outgrown its current set up as this means that more people get to experience the AC culture, but it does need a good looking at to see how we can deter the gangs of trouble makers away from it. Maybe just gated entries where every person, and bag is searched. If you're not holding anything illegal no one will complain about this. I get my back searched at our local community festival entrance.

*bag not back

wonderstuff Glastonbury were told to put the fence up and make it safer, or it would be cancelled as they would not get a licence.

I used to go to the Carnival every year as I was local enough to walk there and back. The one year I didn't go was when I lived in Notting Hill....

There's no reason why I would not want to go if I still lived in London. It's not about race, it's about coming together. The best way to alienate shedloads of people is to turn it into a ticketed event, with some freebies for special people. That'll speed its end marvellously.

It’s been moved already- to take out the core Notting hill and include the more residential streets of Kensal rise and Ladbroke Grove. Works much better now

Personally I don’t think the arrests or knife stats are concerning considering the number of attendees.

I think they need to be over early during the day, and a year off is a good idea.

It’s a shame, I love carnivals, but the gangs use it to sort out grievances even in the smaller ones like St Paul’s in Bristol. It’s horrible for the organisers and people involved who put so much effort in. I like the idea of street celebrations too. It’s young men/boys on the whole. It was similar at football matches but that has got better. Maybe learn from how other huge events manage this?

I don't know any well off black people personally.

I'm astounded with this comment.

What's your definition of well off? Are all the black people you know on benefits or in low paying jobs?

Usually people socialise with those in the same or similar socio economic group...maybe that's got something to do with it.

For any residents who don't like it ... simple solution is to move. Obviously if you live in social housing you may not have a choice in that.

I loved the Nottinghill Carnival, I went when I was 14, which 34 years ago, I felt very safe. Why has crime in London so much worse now?

It isn't.
Murder rate has risen a bit this year but still lower than the average for 1970 to date.

I live on a council estate in Hackney. I'm not naive to the fact there are some unpleasant people around. But London is still a very safe city, carnival has a million people and no deaths and people need to stop scaremongering. The safe cities index 2017 compiled by the Economist has it 20th safest in the world of mega-cities.

As long as you aren't involved in gang crime or drug dealing, then the most dangerous person to you is your husband, boyfriend, ex boyfriend or father who are most likely to murder you. That is who you should be scared of.

I've also been to Glastonbury and Reading festival where there are also huge numbers of people smoking dope and, especially at Reading, a lot of lairy young men looking for a fight.

I know that, and it did undoubtedly make it safer, but my point was that the festival became quite different after the fence ensured it was fully ticketed. It’s very difficult to reduce access to an event and maintain diversity, which is obviously important for NHC.
I guess there are wider issues about London maintaining diversity, Notting Hill in particular being gentrified. Grenfell and the Windrush scandal make it particularly politically sensitive. I have always felt the diversity of the U.K. is it’s greatest strength but the current political climate seems hostile to diversity and NHC should remain as a strong statement celebrating the huge contribution the AC community makes to the UK.

They won't change or ticket the route for fear of being labelled racist.

They have already changed the route. Far from being accused of racism, no one seems to remember it happening at all

"they" have changed the route, blankscreen, don't be silly.

Close isn't actual, as my mum used to say "A miss is as good as a mile". But let's not let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Prevention is better than cure my Mum would say.

SandyY2K For any residents who don't like it ... simple solution is to move.

Really! Let's think about the acceptability of that comment in relation to people who come to live in Britain and don't like our customs For any who don't like it ... simple solution is to move
I don't think you'd be accepting that sort of comment directed at immigrants- you would call it racist and discriminatory.

I live near Reading and used to go to the festival but it is now dominated by young men and felt really unsafe last time I went. Reading is organised by a huge US company and the only motivation is profit, it’s not a ‘local’ event any more.

I agree that crime figures need to be seen in context of the vast size of the NHC.

Lots of press about knife crime in London at the moment, really difficult to know if this is a real increasing concern or press scaremongering. Given current economic situation for people who are poor in London (housing crisis, surpressed wages, gentrification, police numbers dramatically reduced) it shouldn’t be too surprising if there’s increased crime.

Immigrants don't have the wherewithal to choose where they live, let alone in one of the most expensive parts of London. It's an invalid analogy.

We go every year, I missed out this weekend as I wasn't well, but DP said it's had the best atmosphere for a long time this year.

The only reason it gets so much negative press is because it is held in one of the most expensive places to live in London, and those wealthy people have power and influence. Not happy with ethnically cleansing the area they also want to cancel the once a year celebration of the culture of the people who used to live there before they were pushed out by gentrification. I do think a lot of the objections come from a place of deep seated racism.

Yes there is an issue with drinking, drugs, litter and violence, but there is at all festivals and large gatherings of people, and in my experience the people who are there to celebrate their culture are not the ones behaving in this way. The violence comes from gangs, perhaps people should blame the police for their lack of effectiveness in handling that, rather than throwing vitriol at the people trying to celebrate as a community. Sadly there isn't any way of stopping the trouble makers coming, ticketed or not. The people who can afford to take drugs and drink will be able to afford the tickets, but people from the community Carnival is actually for may not. And if tickets were only given to Caribbean people the white people would be outraged and shout discrimination, because they believe they are entitled to use Carnival as an excuse for bad behaviour. How would it deal with mixed race people and interracial families? Ticketing isn't an option that will work imo.

Also, I have often stayed with a friend who lives in Notting hill during carnival as it is a nightmare to get in and out of the area, the noise level at night is nothing like people have said on here. Utter exaggeration.

" I don't think you'd be accepting that sort of comment directed at immigrants- you would call it racist and discriminatory. "

but it wasn't directed at 'immigrants' was it? No, it was directed at these kind of rich people who buy an overpriced house in a area that has become "trendy" largely because of Carnival and then want to ban it/move it.
Anyway my brother used to live on Lancaster road, and even years ago residents were being offered money to go away for the weekend. fact.

Great post silkpyjamas. Absolutely agree.

Very few people complaining about the carnival have been there longer than it. They’ve moved in and now want it moved

And the residents who have been there longer and are anti (and unable to move ie council tenants) usually leave for the weekend. Local housing associations and charities organise coach trips to the seaside etc for many.

Offered money to go away by who?