Cancel the Notting Hill Carnival!

[Witchofwisteria]

AIBU. This year police have confiscated 49 knives and 70 offensive weapons total, including ACID and stun guns plus one stabbing. Over 400 people were arrested, up from 313 last year and I am starting to wonder when enough will be enough.

The streets are left in a state after the event and the cost to taxpayer is astronomical. I feel like the Notting hill carnival has lost its way and turned into a breeding ground for opportunistic thugs. The thought that someone was wondering round with ACID, willing to throw it into a crowd and scar however many tens of people it sprayed on is beyond sick. We are quite happy to say terrorists are a major threat to Londoners but these groups are a MUCH worse threat to our daily lives and it's just too risky to have this event when we know it's going to attract these nasty individuals and gangs.

I'm totally not a fuddy duddy and appreciate that things like rubbish being left and dirty streets are always going to happen with big public festivals (like Brighton Pride) but Notting hill is just seeming to get more sinister each year.

Time to cancel the festival for 1 year, sit down and re think how this could be made into a ticketed festival in 2020. The price of the ticket will help pay for the extra policing and security, fencing and security around the cordoned off area and contribute towards charities the festival supports. Think Hyde park concerts in the park type event, we need to keep people safe.

70 potential stabbings but actually - for those of us who deal in facts - no stabbings at all. I wonder how many took place in the rest of London in those two days?

The people who want the carnival stopped or sanitised are entitled white people who knew it happened when they moved into the gentrified properties which were the slums considered only fit to rip off black tenants 50 years ago. As a privileged white woman, I can absolutely talk about "entitled white people" without being remotely racist.

There was one stabbing.

@Twistella I actually don't know, but to move into an area that you know hosted the NHC for 30+ years, to then say you don't want it there and actively work towards getting it moved, is atypical privileged behaviour.

@Witchofwisteria if you are not looking up stats to back you up. Why should anyone waste their time on your AIBU?

But for your info, the majority of the reported arrests were for drug offences not violence (but you'll never know if that's true as you won't look it up)!

@carol i think you are bring ridiculous too, thats the beauty of a debate site, you get exposed to the sort of thinking that you avoid in real life!

I live

Does anyone actually believe the event should stay in Notting Hill and if so - why?

I think the word cancel is getting some people all aggravated, I am not suggesting it goes away forever just maybe 1 year whilst a plan is put in place to celebrate in a safer environment.

If you are part of the carribean community would you not prefer it moved too? They must get sick of the bad press - it def takes away from the positive aspects of the carnival. Wouldn't you agree fenced off areas where you have to be checked to allowed in is beneficial to everyone.

I just don't see you backing up why you think I am racist though @Ummmmgogo. I must be, you've said so, anyone who has concerns is racist.

How patronising to suggest that it is entitled to not want people to stab others. As if it's gritty and real to be in the midst of knife crime and a bit Hyacinth Bucket-ish to enjoy safe and "sanitised" streets. The tough bits of London are not a theme park or some sort of zoo which "enlightened" people can admire from a distance for their authenticity.

I think the NHC is a bit of a magnet or call to arms for gangs. I was recently in West London and at school coming out time there suddenly appeared masses of police vans and dogs. I was caught in the midst of what were obviously rival gangs who were grouping at either end of a street. They weren't interested in me, but I hot footed it out of there pretty damn quick as I could see I could be caught up in it. I can't see how it is appealing for law-abiding people to live in the middle of this, however "authentic" it may be.

It's now one of the most expensive parts of London, nobody's making these people live there. They could live anywhere but actually chose to live where the carnival happens every year.

@Faultymain - sorry just to clarify I meant I'm not going to traul the internet to look up stats for other festivals for comparison arrest records, that's just a bit irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make which is that the event is not suitable for Notting hill anymore - it's too big! Im very happy if others are willing to do this though :)

If you moved to notting hill in the last 30 years, you are aware carnival tasks place every year and that's something you have to accept as part of living there.
It's like buying a flat above a pub and getting annoyed when it's noisy when it's kicking out time...

They must get sick of the bad press - it def takes away from the positive aspects of the carnival

OP, you see being from the AC community, all the media ever does is depict the community in a negative light. Carnival makes no difference. So cancel don't cancel we still get the blame. I don't know (or am not aware) of any gang members, I don't live 'that life' but I'm judged on sight.

With regards to ticketing, the logical mother of a 16 year old young man who may want to go without us someday says, yes. The hippy (childless) free spirit in me says the cordons are bad enough, let me be free.

" white people who knew it happened when they moved into the gentrified properties which were the slums considered only fit to rip off black tenants 50 years ago. "

exactly

No, it's not appealing Irma. I didn't have much choice when I was 12. I don't know my DM's reasoning for leasing the shop there, possibly because it was right on the corner of Portobello Road, so tourists had to pass twice to go to and from the market?

How patronising to suggest that it is entitled to not want people to stab others. As if it's gritty and real to be in the midst of knife crime and a bit Hyacinth Bucket-ish to enjoy safe and "sanitised" streets. The tough bits of London are not a theme park or some sort of zoo which "enlightened" people can admire from a distance for their authenticity

Surely everyone wants a safer environment? Which can be achieved with a change of venue into a perimeter venue (Hyde Park?) and (free or v cheap) ticketed event.

I don't think it is only white people who don't like to be stabbed.

Do mothers in the caribbean community (as we keep saying this is their event) not want their boys to enjoy the NHC in a safer environment? Where they don't have to worry about them being stabbed????

Where's the proof it would be safer somewhere else? Nobody's offered any yet.

There are specific police concerns around the number of people who attend and that one year there could be a massive crushing of people leading to deaths. Similar events in streets that attract less people have been forced to move when they get too big because of the same fears. But nothing will happen unless there is a major disaster.
There were 13,000 police involved in policing Carnival in 2018. Comparing it to Birmingham where there were probably about 8 police covering emergency calls is really not comparable.

Sorry, finger slipped.

I live in Bristol andSt Paul's Carnival lost their license. I think it was 2 years where there was no Carnival. This year they were back.
There was a recent bbc Bristol documentary about how they got it back and how the community who wanted it back worked their arses off. They worked on a shoestring, had lots of community meetings, thousands of volunteers. They focussed their floats and dances on the local schools. They involved the older 'windrush' generation and they had a float too.

My friend is a detective sergeant in the Avon & Somerset Police (she's black if that's of interest to anyone?). She always had to work the carnival and hated it, however this year she said it was a proper community vibe and a much nicer atmosphere.

I'm not sure how they managed to shed most of the violent/gent element but they did, this year anyway.

Bluelady The dangers of deaths due to mass crushing would go if it was in a large open air space. But I don't think that will happen unless/until there is a major disaster. No other large event would be allowed to take place under the conditions Carnival operate under.

I suppose the lack of impact on local residences and the people that live and work in them, during festivals that take place in wide open, purpose built areas could be seen as some kind of proof?

@IrmaFayLear

Who suggested it was entitled to not want people to be stabbed? is that what newcomers to the area are protesting? the stabbings?

Who said anything about sanitizing streets? I know I was talking about sanitizing the event. But hey see in several paragraphs what wasn't said and feign concern why don't you.

But nobody's died of mass crushing. There have been five deaths in 42 years.

@Faultymain5 thank you for your input! Yes I can totally appreciate the conflict between "mum rules and son rules".

I think the ticket thing would be really good idea for everyone's peace of mind, especially mums sending their teens. If everyone is stopped and searched then there's no singling out and no risk of being caught up in a stabbing whilst inside. Once you're in I'd like to think the atmosphere would actually be lifted to be even more "hippy" from knowing you are safer!?

BlueLady In 2016 alone there were two separate incidents that came dangerously close to that happening when crowd control barriers collapsed under the sheer weight of people. We only know about those because of an official safety report.

@Trampire that's really great news I'm glad they were able to turn it around and got their carnival back!