Cancel the Notting Hill Carnival!

[Witchofwisteria]

AIBU. This year police have confiscated 49 knives and 70 offensive weapons total, including ACID and stun guns plus one stabbing. Over 400 people were arrested, up from 313 last year and I am starting to wonder when enough will be enough.

The streets are left in a state after the event and the cost to taxpayer is astronomical. I feel like the Notting hill carnival has lost its way and turned into a breeding ground for opportunistic thugs. The thought that someone was wondering round with ACID, willing to throw it into a crowd and scar however many tens of people it sprayed on is beyond sick. We are quite happy to say terrorists are a major threat to Londoners but these groups are a MUCH worse threat to our daily lives and it's just too risky to have this event when we know it's going to attract these nasty individuals and gangs.

I'm totally not a fuddy duddy and appreciate that things like rubbish being left and dirty streets are always going to happen with big public festivals (like Brighton Pride) but Notting hill is just seeming to get more sinister each year.

Time to cancel the festival for 1 year, sit down and re think how this could be made into a ticketed festival in 2020. The price of the ticket will help pay for the extra policing and security, fencing and security around the cordoned off area and contribute towards charities the festival supports. Think Hyde park concerts in the park type event, we need to keep people safe.

That number of weapons is alarming, and if that's how many were found, it makes you wonder how many were there altogether. I don't see how that can be managed, short of restricting the number of access points and searching people on the way in.

I think you might find a lot of people agreeing with you about Pride in Brighton. It's not really got a problem with violence, afaik, but the mess and the behaviour of some of public is pretty vile.

My DIL lives in a basement flat, heard some noise outside during the evening, looked out of the window to see that two people had come down her steps and one of them was getting a BJ right outside her flat! DGD was in bed, thankfully, at 3 she's a bit young for that sort of sex education.

When DIL mentioned it to her neighbour, the neighbour said that it was an improvement on the previous year, when several people had used the basement area to have a crap!

I'm starting to feel that urban areas aren't really appropriate for these big events.

We are quite happy to say terrorists are a major threat to Londoners but these groups are a MUCH worse threat to our daily lives

Ridiculous

I’ve never been to the carnival ( I live in London). I can’t say it looks at all inviting, but I imagine a lot of people would be upset if it was cancelled. Not the ones in the fancy houses though, I’m sure.

Completely agree. I went once and felt unsafe. It was very moody.
Wouldn’t want any family kids going there as it was fight after fight. It’s not a celebration if so many people are arrested, people stabbed and fighting. Just an opportunity for criminals to congregate and cause trouble.

LakieLady - maybe I am a bit more allowing of Brighton Pride as when I was younger I went to it every year although always went back home on the last train at 11pm as I wasn't local so never quite saw the mess in the morning which must be horrible as a resident. However although it's horrible that people are doing what you have said- the vibe is always positive and friends of mine who still go and will stay till 3am have never had a problem with witnessing any violence or nasty arrests. Plus the city make so much money from the event the clean up, which is usually complete 24 hours after pays for itself I imagine!

Notting hill just seems like an accident waiting to happen, someone is going to die and that's just not comparable to a BJ in a basement flat lol

I'm starting to feel that urban areas aren't really appropriate for these big events.

I think that’s what it comes down to. Not the specific event, but that they inevitably attract an antisocial and/or criminal element. A bit of rubbish is always going to happen, but public drunkenness/drug-taking on a large scale and acid/knives are just not OK in residential areas.

It is too big and attracts some absolute fucking low life who go for the aggro.

Open access streets aren’t the right location for mass gate rings of people to drink and dance.

All other festivals have defined perimeters with fences / walls and limited access gates where you are searched for weapons and drugs and have your ID checked against your ticket.

Not sure why NHC is expected to be run smoothly.

My friend is in the met and she hates working NHC. Obviously she is in difficult situations a lot of the time, but she says NHC is the out and out worst for aggression towards cops - getting spat on, things thrown at you, being punched in the face (that happened to her last year) even when you’re just patrolling not even trying to ‘do’ something to someone.

Carnival has rather outgrown its site and there's been discussion for years about how to make it safer. But there's no support for a change the traditional route. Because it's not a festival, it's a parade.

There is however useful precedent for ticketing street events where overcrowding is a serio risk - you could treat it like the NY fireworks and set a cordon within which there are only only residents, those in the parade itself and ticket-holders.

Knife confiscations are up because they have knife arches in some places. There are also (some years) measures to stop certain individuals attending (no idea about the legal underpinnings for that, nor how it's actually done)

There are more loos than there used to be, but people weeing, pooing and leaving sanpro in nooks and crannies including people's yardshad never been stamped out. The clean up crews are pretty damned good though.

I agree. DH is a met police officer and every year I worry he won't come home (he's now safely upstairs sleeping off a night shift but DD and I haven't seen him for two days). He absolutely hates the carnival and they are not allowed annual leave so we can never go away on the bank holiday weekend.

If there are any officers on here, thank you for all you do

Have you compared the Notting Hill stats to, for instance, football match stats OP. No? Any idea how Notting Hill compares to other events in or out of the capital? Are you in favour of banning all major events that carry risk of crime over a certain level?
Or is this just a knee-jerk to something you know very little about?
If there's more risk of violence at a major football match are you going to call for them to be cancelled?
Any event can attract trouble makers by the way, it's the nature of mass-groupings of human beings. It's why communist states tend to ban rallies of any kind. In Moscow it's against the law to protest in anything other than a single person, two people can be arrested. In a free society we recognise people's rights to congregate and provide the resources to mitigate the worst effects.

Went when i was a kid, got felt up. Went in the noughties got kettled. Wasnt nice.

I’ve never been but a couple of friends are actually in the carnival processsion itself. I wanted to take my children to watch them but they said no way and that it’s too dangerous

Maybe it's a good way to get weapons off the criminal element! As I understand it the cast majority have a great time so maybe I think YABU.

I've never been (also love in London) as my neighbours brother was killed there (many years ago).

YANBU.
Do you get this level of crime / violence in any other street parade? Pride for example?

I assume you’re happy with shutting these down too OP?

www.vice.com/en_uk/article/zmmy89/proof-carnival-has-less-crime-than-the-uks-other-big-summer-events

but where does it stop? 'Normal' people who don't like crowds, feel intimidated by the noise and potential for violence will stop going. Then all it is, is a thugs get-together.

Football crowds used to be like that too - and i think they are going back the same way. Mob-mentality.
And I know I avoid large crowds just because of the threat of bombs (I lived in London during the IRA campaigns) and terrorism generally. Too easy to leave a bag with a bomb in on the street in a crowded place

I feel the same way about fireworks being sold openly - with all the threats of terrorism and bombs, how can JoePublic buy gunpowder so easily? Who needs fertiliser and detonators?

As a resident, I wish the carnival was moved to Hyde park. Hate the noise and the crowds and the mess. Hate the fact that my tube station is closed and buses diverted so getting home from work those two days becomes an ordeal. Hate having to pop out to get milk while it’s on. Hate the way the atmosphere becomes slightly menacing after dark. Just fuck off, carnival.

So glad it’s over for another year

It’s point & origins have been totally lost.... these days for too many people it’s just an excuse for a fight.... it is no longer safe in the urban environment of its roots and should be moved. Change is a necessary.

"someone is going to die"

Why the future tense? Didn't you know there have already been deaths?

@onalongsabbatical football matches don't require 6000+ police officers to manage the event each day though.

I know a few people who run shops on and near the route, and they board up and take a hit for 2 days of trading.

One church I know also boards up.

Street furniture often gets damages.

People with basement flats are swamped with rubbish and pee/poo.

The noise is like an aircraft engine (rumble, throbbing), and the hooting and whooping from pubs/flats having parties goes on and on and on.

You can't get parked on your street and car breakins increases.

Street crime increases

God knows how many more police hours are needed.

It's a pain if you live within a couple of miles - it's just too big. There were attempts to move it to Hyde Park but the idea died a death.

It's getting wider because of the tube stations being closed very close.

Don't know what the answer is - get it along Regent and Oxford Street like St Patricks day?

In my experience most of the poor behaviour at these events is from people who aren’t really interested in the actual event. Straight people at Brighton Pride, people who aren’t members of the Caribbean community at NHC, hooligans at football etc. The event is secondary to the opportunity to act anti socially.

Yes, if you want to insult the black community in London, irreparably damage race relations and potentially cause riots, fill, your boots, OP. Meanwhile there's a much bigger picture and you might want to do a little research and find out why the carnival began in the first place.

I used to go and loved it. But one year the mood changed. I remember a gang charging through a crowd. It was terrifying and if acid had been a thing back then it would probably have been thrown.
Scarily packed in places, I would only take my dc first thing on a Sunday before crowds arrive. I never thought I'd be saying this. But I also think it should be stopped.