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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ask for your opinion?

67 replies

Theunmumsymummy · 26/08/2018 11:46

I was having a conversation with Dsis about having the coil put in when niece (12) asked what it was. We explained to her and she came back a few minutes later with the comment that if everybody (I'm going to assume she meant women) had them put in at birth and then not taken off again until they were an adult then you could effectively get rid of teen pregnancies. I mentioned it to a friend and she said that someone should have to prove that they're capable and mature enough to be a good parent before they have it taken out. My mum was a social worker and I grew up with stories of kids who grew up in awful conditions, not because the parents were cruel but simply because they were incompetent. I know that it couldn't really happen and that it's slightly Orwellian but I thought it was an interesting idea and just wondered what you thought about it.
Please don't bite my head off .

OP posts:

Pengggwn · 26/08/2018 11:48

How would you propose to insert a coil into my newborn baby girl without crossing my dead body?

LadyLoveYourWhat · 26/08/2018 11:51

How would you prove that you were going to be a good parent? Who would decide?

Confusedbeetle · 26/08/2018 11:51

I love the pure logic of a child and they always raise issue with simplictity. That is their joy. They have yet to learn the messy grey areas of families, ethics . This thread could whip up a storm so get ready, This is why we should always hear what youngsters say. They will always challenge your assumptions. Good for her. She will change her mind as she matures but is developing her social thinking

immortalmarble · 26/08/2018 11:54

Yes, no non-teenage parent ever needs intervention from social workers

SoftlyCatchyMonkey1 · 26/08/2018 11:55

The logic behind it isn't unreasonable imo. However it'd be difficult to argue for someone turning 16 and not having a choice to get pregnant though. They can legally consent to medical treatment and sex obviously, so should legally allowed to have children if they wish (disastrous though this may be for them)
It is food for thought though OP

ProudThrilledHappy · 26/08/2018 11:56

The coil isn’t a 100% effective, zero side effect way of preventing pregnancy.

Also why is the onus on the women to prevent pregancy? Why don’t we chemically castrate all boys and men until they prove they are fit to be fathers?
(I am not suggesting this by the way, just trying to flip this to a different viewpoint)

Pengggwn · 26/08/2018 11:56

I don't think anybody has the right to play God and distort a woman's as natural capacity for reproduction without her consent, at any age. It's a repulsive idea.

ElainaElephant · 26/08/2018 12:00

Yeah, I can see no issues at all with that idea...

None.

What could possibly go wrong with making it so no children could have babies. I can't see sexual predators taking advantage. I can't see there being any physical issues for the child. (don't coils need to be changed every now and then? I'm not sure. I tried one and it was hell. My body cramped like the first day of a period. I couldn't wait to get rid of it. So much so I removed it myself.)

Pengggwn · 26/08/2018 12:03

ElainaElephant

Aren't coils inserted vaginally? Forget getting one out, how the fuck would one get it in without being guilty of a serious sex offence?

ScreamingValenta · 26/08/2018 12:04

Teenage hormones and the onset of menstruation are hard enough to deal with as it is, without the Mirena adding even more hormones to the mix.

It's the underlying social attitudes which lead teenage girls and boys to create pregnancies before they are mature enough to become parents, which need to be addressed. I don't really know how you would do that - perhaps by giving them more incentives to avoid pregnancy at an early age, in terms of better career opportunities - something to work for, so they don't rely on parenthood as the only rite-of-passage into 'adulthood' that is within their reach.

bluemascara · 26/08/2018 12:04

I remember writing a piece in this for my a level coursework. Only it was to give all male babies a reversible vasectomy at birth and only reverse it when they passed a 'test'
Being young and naive I thought it was a great idea... and it is, in principle
However as others have asked, who decides on your worthiness as a parent? What would the measures me? It would be open to corruption and abuse imo and far too Orwellian for my liking

MissusGeneHunt · 26/08/2018 12:05

And while we're about it, why don't we glue a few condoms on at birth too... Mmmm. Hang on, just wouldn't be the answer, would it? What about bromide in the water...

How would one 'judge' a mature mind?

It feels as though we're erring on eugenics now...god forbid.

Sparklesocks · 26/08/2018 12:09

Aside from the ethics of implanting a device into child without them being able to consent, how do you quantify when someone is ‘ready’ for a baby? And what if it’s used against women with certain illnesses or lifestyles? It’s a bit eugenicsy.

ElainaElephant · 26/08/2018 12:09

Yes, they are inserted vaginally. They have a string, which I pulled on as I couldn't beat it any longer.

As long as a parent agrees, it wouldn't be classed as assault, just like smears aren't assault (consent for children is given by parents).

Its just a really bad idea.

Changednancy · 26/08/2018 12:10

I applaud the child’s thinking on this and hope they continue to question, critically analyse and learn about issues like this.

But cannot fathom why an adult would even think it was appropriate to put out there as a concept.

Firstly if this IS possible it still puts the onus on the biologically female of society. Making us from birth be the ones who hold the responsibility for this.

Secondly inserting some metal within an child from birth unless absolutely needed is barbaric

Thirdly these things can go missing and cause problems - so effectively you would be playing roulette with someone’s reproductive system ‘just incase’ they fall pregnant

Finally and this for me is the kicker - they have to be deemed ‘competent’ by people who could abuse this power for all sorts of horrid reasons not limited to trying to erase race, physical attributes, disabilities, genetic conditions and intelligence. The ethics is mind boggling.

Yeah apart from those points I think it’s an interesting concept

Pengggwn · 26/08/2018 12:10

MissusGeneHunt

Exactly. I can see it now: you are "fit" to have children if you are of a certain age, weight, level of education, don't have any genetic dispositions towards physical illness, disabilities, mental health problems, own your own home, aren't in debt, have no criminal convictions, no involvement with SS, are married or in a civil partnership, aren't overtly religious, non-smoker, moderate drinker and no pets.

I can see what that would do to population growth. All the old people would end up starving to death in their homes because, soon, there would be nobody left to do the caring.

Lovely.

paxillin · 26/08/2018 12:15

It would break the autonomy of the patient and does not benefit the patient, either.

MissusGeneHunt · 26/08/2018 12:15

@Pengggwn I know, it's possibly the most hideous thing I've heard for a while. They may as well eradicate me now, I'm definitely sub human...

I suppose the debate itself from a young person is good, but I would therefore hope there's an adult who can assist to see the other side.

immortalmarble · 26/08/2018 12:16

It is a revolting thing to suggest. I would never have a coil; I have the right to choose the method of contraception that suits me.

How can anyone think this is a reasonable thing to put out there?

ElainaElephant · 26/08/2018 12:17

It would also create a backstreet service to remove coils from those not visited fit to have children.

MissusGeneHunt · 26/08/2018 12:18

@immortalmarble I'm hoping no one does think that....

Pengggwn · 26/08/2018 12:18

They may as well eradicate me now, I'm definitely sub human...

Me Too.

MarchingOrders · 26/08/2018 12:23

What a fucking disgusting idea. What about people that don't have an amazing career? How do you prove you're going to be a competent parent?
I was 19 when I got pregnant and we didn't earn good money at the time. My DD is now almost 2 and we both have amazing careers and earn good money, we are good parents. We had to step up and we did - as most of the people I know who are young parents did.

immortalmarble · 26/08/2018 12:23

Well I hope not Missus but “interesting idea” I would replace with “depraved, sick idea”

What the fuck is wrong with you, OP?

Original poster

Theunmumsymummy · 26/08/2018 12:27

I was quite shocked when my friend suggested it as well and did mention at the time how it would lead to eugenics. Other people I've asked ( including DM) agree but all said that Dniece point about teen pregnancies was less unreasonable as they can't see anyone arguing that teenage girls should be able to get pregnant. I'm not entirely sure where to stand.

OP posts:

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