To think some posters are naive about SS?

[fudgeraisinbiscuit]

I see many posts where people seem to believe either that SS will offer support and that parents who are loving and coping but struggling can contact them for a hand-hold, or posts where people believe a not ideal yet normal situation can and should be reported.

AIBU to think posters are naive about what SS actually do?

OP - children have Child Protection Plans rather than being put on a list.

Professionally the vast majority of CP SW's I've worked with have been great. They have huge caseloads though.

From what I can observe CP is very procedure driven. In my opinion there are too many meetings, too much paperwork and not enough action.

Obviously any family who has CP children's services involvement is going to perhaps find that experience very stressful and thus report on it negatively.

I wholeheartedly agree that there are social workers who have their opinion on what's going on and then go on to build their case around that opinion, even if evidence starts to prove their opinion wrong.

It's frustrating to say the least when you read a report saying x y z which is wrong but are expected to sign it. Picking them up on wrong "facts" or refusing to sign it paints you out to be "difficult " and "not cooperating" which then just adds to their case against you.

I agree on both points, Goat.

Discussions around SS are often hysterical and based on hearsay anecdotes. I think it is because child protection is such an emotive issue.

It is also true that social workers have to focus on the child. So many serious case reviews criticise SS for putting too much focus on parental wishes and feelings. They also have to work according to the law. People seem to forget that and think social workers are just stamping their own opinions on people’s lives. For example, if a child is on a CP plan and the parents have not met the expected outcomes , some sort of action HAS to be taken, whether that is continuing on a CP plan or care processing’s etc. And that decision is made by the professionals at the CP conference and it’s Chair. Not by a single social worker.

The issue with you, making the statements that you did, boredmaman, is that you present them as facts that happen across the board and they don't.

The complaints procedure needs to be improved and go above the direct Manger, as well IMO. Timescales and legislated procedures aren't followed and sometimes nothing comes of complaints.

On the other hand a SW who was found of falsifying reports, not doing home visits etc, was instantly stuck off. Compared to other Professional Bodies, they are tougher when a SW is found to be at fault, than a Doctor/MP/Police etc.

care proceedings

Yes fudger we should be talking about it, I’m not suggesting otherwise, only that a little responsibility is important. We need to remember it’s vulnerable children at the heart of it.

Marginalised groups are absolutely vulnerable when the people they are challenging are more articulate.

There is a large focus in postgraduate work around effective communication. This is becoming the preferred route for accessing social work and I believe it is the right way and willl bring the most benefits.

Discussions around SS are often hysterical and based on hearsay anecdotes. I think it is because child protection is such an emotive issue

It's also because it's very difficult to find good evidence due to the very nature of what we are talking about. It is there though, these usually get written off as "exceptions".

""Picking them up on wrong "facts" or refusing to sign it paints you out to be "difficult " and "not cooperating" which then just adds to their case against you.""

It doesn't at Court Level, in my Region. Family Law Judges need to be looked at, if that is happening.

""From what I can observe CP is very procedure driven. In my opinion there are too many meetings, too much paperwork and not enough action.""

That protects everyone and has again been research and past mistakes, led.

SS and individual SWs seem a bit too variable if that makes sense

I do see that, Tess. It’s very difficult for the most vulnerable in society to be heard when things go wrong with SS.

But the discussions are always based around misinformation, ‘the boogieman’ fantasy of ‘baby snatchers’ (no other profession has an inflammatory nickname for the people involved

The police have many...

Agree that there is much mis-information around SS and their powers. However losing a child is for most the biggest most base fear a parent can have. To know there are those with power to enforce the removal of your child, immediately raises hackles and distrust. That's why discussion and clear policy is imperative. I can see why SW must feel attacked, they often are being. I don't know if it's a perception that can ever change though; it's people's children and even when it's the most minor involvement with the the most professional, kind and helpful SW, that is always going to be in the background.

The Scottish Government publishes figures annually around children’s social work.

According to the last published figures 2% of children in Scotland were deemed to be ‘looked after’ and of those the majority remained either with their parents or other kinship carers. Of the children being discharged from formal measures last year the vast majority returned to the care of their parents.

I’m not a social worker but do work for a local authority and my understanding is that there are extremely high thresholds for removing a child from the family home. Children can only be removed with a Child Protection Order, and a CPO must be granted by a Sheriff.

In Scotland these processes are linked to the Children’s Panel system where decisions are taken by a tribunal. The tribunal is a legal process and families participate along with social workers and other professionals.

I know the system is different in England but there will be equivalent statistics available.

I should add that in Scotland there is still a Child Protection Register but the number of children in the list appears to be reducing. This is because there is more emphasis on early intervention. Again, statistics are available.

I was in an admin support role with SS and I thought they themselves were naive. They regularly expected under age teen mums with dire backgrounds to have the knowledge & skills an educated, articulate middle class 35yr old would have, then castigated them when they didn't. No 'support' just lectures. It was depressing.

This was my experience too.

@squadronleader87

Can you link them? What you have summarised doesn't really tell us anything.

It's frustrating to say the least when you read a report saying x y z which is wrong but are expected to sign it. Picking them up on wrong "facts" or refusing to sign it paints you out to be "difficult " and "not cooperating" which then just adds to their case against you.

This is why multi agency work is so effective in social work. Reports should come from a wide range of sources so, for example, a family support or adult suppport worker gives their voice alongside the parent and social worker. There is less room for misinformation.

3Tres has is right. There is a framework by law that social workers must follow. It’s not down to the whims of social workers how they work.

The issue with you, making the statements that you did, boredmaman, is that you present them as facts that happen across the board and they don't

I did the exact opposite. Did you perhaps mix me up with someone else?

As someone who's been badly let down by some social workers I definitely don't think I'm "naive" but at the same time it's still worth reaching out for support.

My husband got a conviction that meant he wasn't safe being around kids (we had 3, and I had a dd from previous relationship, my dd was 15 and the other children ranged in age from 4-13) I struggled a lot but kicked him out immediately and went straight to being a single mum while his court case proceeded, he was convicted and imprisoned. I wanted nothing to do with him. I reached out to social services for support and the first social worker who came, with someone from child protection (who I never saw again)
judged me very harshly based on my upbringing and education level and my new financial status (single Mum on benefits) and forced me into a 9 month battle with social services. I had enough and got a new social worker by complaining repeatedly and she was amazing, really helped me and the kids and offered support though I didn't always take up some parts of support.

I think they have a lot to offer but nasty social workers (and yeah, they do exist) need to be more easily held accountable. This was 8 years ago now so things may have changed but my first social worker was genuinely horrific, lied about me and to me, tried to force me into signing several documents without explaining to me what they were or allowing me to get advice from others about it before I signed. Also full of threats whenever I said I wouldn't/couldn't do anything or didn't find it helpful, saying "we'll take your children if you don't do x" (yes, that blatant) which I know isn't simple and it wasn't true because it takes more than one social workers say so for you to lose your kids.. as far as I am aware despite complaining he hasn't had any disciplinary action. So I can totally see how someone with that experience would write off social services as a whole because it's horrific and frightening to live through especially if you have no experience with social services and believe the threats or lies.

Please let me stress that my other social worker (2nd one) was great and I'd still consider reaching out again if needed because she was lovely and v helpful and I don't believe all social workers are bad but I think there needs to be better training and more accountability, there are nasty people in all professions but in social services it can do real damage (I was a wreck by the time I got my 2nd social worker)

Thresholds are indeed very high with the local authorities I work with. I work particularly with teenagers and the thresholds are sky-high. I am far more likely to be begging SS for some intervention with and protection for my young people than I am to be warding off over zealous social workers....

This is the latest published information for Scotland:
www.gov.scot/Publications/2018/03/6242/downloads

I think people may be 'naive' because there are so many 'strands' to social services and so many levels of support/intervention.

For example, Children's social care may be involved with a family in a Child in Need arrangement, for example, to support families with children who have additional needs and disabilities. This is a voluntary arrangement and parents could find the experience supportive.

However if social services are involved at Child Protection level, then the experience could be very different.

Then, of course, we have Adult Social Care, which is, to say the least, struggling to meet demand.

Bird I cannot comment on court level. I don’t have experience of that.

In our case SW seemed confused about the difference between disagreeing and not being able to follow professional advice ie SW’s!

The SW wanted me to sign a totally illegal document which stated if my son did not attend school, the LA could start child protection proceedings against me! I refused.

My GP had signed him off school, pending a re-referral to CAMHS due to his disability and inability to cope with school.

Yep they have no clue but then most of the posters on MN are

White and very middle class
So how many people who are not the same as them raise their kids they can’t imagine

Ss will not be interested in some shouting at their kids

Any abuse has to be surstained and significant

Majority of people do shout at their children no matter what AP parents like to think majory children have heard their children swear ect

I used to foster they type of children I had

We’re children who had been very badly abused and I think most posters who live in a Home Counties bubble would be very surprised at what you can do with out having your children removed

Their are not the services or sw to be doing anything much about middle class pearl clothing over somone who shouted at their child out side Asda

I have to keep saying it because it's really important. The thresholds might be high but there is no threshold or court involvement for a voluntary arrangement that (for reasons that should be obvious) many parents feel compelled to co-operate with.

Repeating that the court must decide and that social workers have no powers is factually accurate but disingenuous.

When people talk about "bad" social workers I feel there are missing something huge. These are people who have been working for years, often decades with some of the worst of society. They have seen things that would give you nightmares and have carried on working to try and help children, often fighting against lack of money, staff, resources, the system that is meant to support them, as well as the parents and families of children at risk. They may have seen death and abuse and neglect the likes of which none of you would be able to handle.
And then when they cant handle it so well anymore and they perhaps become less able at their jobs, they are not supported and helped, they are vilified. Do you know how many SW's have mental health difficulties due to their work?
They are held to standards the people complaining about them could never achieve.