To think some posters are naive about SS?

[fudgeraisinbiscuit]

I see many posts where people seem to believe either that SS will offer support and that parents who are loving and coping but struggling can contact them for a hand-hold, or posts where people believe a not ideal yet normal situation can and should be reported.

AIBU to think posters are naive about what SS actually do?

goodgirls, sorry, got a bit sidetracked there. What was your question again?

Agree entirely tess. And what's worse is that it is a huge disservice to other parents

I think this has been a most informative thread. Versions of both bad SW practices and good.

Your post was funny tess. Calling someone the barmy one and then name calling is all they have. As you so rightly say the complete lack of self awareness is frightening

And what's worse is that it is a huge disservice to other parents

I know and it's sad because there are massive failings in the system that are fixable, there are also really scary things happening in social work training (specifically for childrens) that have lot of people really concerned.

Those angry parents could be a powerful force if they stopped with all the conspiracy bollocks. All they want to talk about is how terrible individual social workers are. There is this odd shunning of recorded evidence too, every parent on here who had an anecdote has been acknowledged by ethel et al but the links (that have actual recorded examples of appalling practice) that I provided have been completely ignored... not even a "Oh that's fucking terrible! See they are demons!".

Then again maybe it's cathartic to just have a bitchfest about social services online? Who am I to argue? However I don't think it was a coincidence that Ethel remained calm with all the "social workers"T but became personal with a "parent" who did not want to join in her narrative.

The "" around parents and social worker are because of course people may be both. That's the other thing about their narrative. It's either "us" or "them".

BTW there are many wonderful parents who have terrible experiences with social services and do fight to support others by offering their own advice and experiences to parents and professionals. I know they exist and I follow most of them.

I know they exist and I follow most of them Do you call them "the barmy ones" as well?

Agree entirely again tess. And I know that sometimes a parents bad experience isn't because of inexperience or any of the other more common problems with the system, there are cases where it is deliberate twattery on the behalf of an individual sw. And their chance of being heard is reduced every time people start shouting about widespread twattery amongst sws and baby snatching conspiracy theories.

Yet again, you are the only ones mentioning conspiracy. Why is that?

Thanks for continuing to bump this thread, allowing more people to see your utter contempt for posters who have described their own problems and experiences within the system. Particularly tess with her "barmy one" comment. Goodnight.

goodgirls I would like to answer your question about why I think SW remove children from ‘good’ parents. Obviously it’s my thoughts based on my experience and other similar stories I’ve heard. So not a fact, an informed opinion is all.

SWs have no little or no training in disability or SN. Sw are suppose to base their opinions on facts or evidence, I would guess it is easier and less time consuming to base opinion on verbal discussion, than it is to read several lengthy reports from experts. Once SW’s have built up a case for months, money spent, hours used, based on inaccuracies, I would guess it would be very difficult for them to reverse it and say ooops actually I didn’t base the case on my opinion based on facts, just listened to the most likely story, which fitted with the case!

aunt I have no idea why you want to pretend people are showing utter contempt for your experience, or what you think you are achieving by attacking/ goading posters who have a broader view on the systems failures.

By all means if it makes you feel better, throw whatever you like at me, it doesn't bother me. But you need to stop and consider that not everyone is in that position. Especially if you're doing so on other groups that will have more vulnerable posters.

A young and/or frightened mum, with nobody to turn to could potentially be harmed by your 'my feelings, my experience, screw your experience and fear ss' style of posting. If I was a young girl who had posted about how the system had failed me by not intervening, and as a result now had ss involved with my child, your attitude would not only be hurtful but would just increase the fear and stress of a parent already in a difficult position.

And I'm serious when I say that if you really can't control yourself, you are welcome to to take it out on me if that will stop you doing so elsewhere where the person on the receiving end is not in a position to take it. Pm abuse to me long after this thread ends if you want, but please don't think that your bad experience gives you the right to dismiss that of others, or to try and point score with other people who are equally, or in some situations more, entitled to empathy and respect.

As I've repeatedly said I have no reason to doubt your personal experience. But if I'd come to this thread with little knowledge of failures within the system, or even of the opinion that parents are usually lying, your unbalanced opinions and manner would hardly convince me otherwise. So be aware that you aren't shitting on tess or me or anyone else, you're shitting all over those other parents who have been failed by the system by your misrepresentation.

Hog - there is non point trying to have a rational discussion with this poster. This is the reason that I (and I suspect others), stepped away.

Hopefully anyone who has concerns will be able to read the whole thread on balance and make a judgement about the good and bad practise in social work and make the right decision for themselves and most importantly their children.

thehog I have to say when I was going through my bad experience, I posted on the SN board. I found lots of others has also had similar bad experiences. I found the ones having bad experiences had made it their business to find out the legalities and proecedures involved etc etc.

I doubt someone who had a good experience would have the need to have that knowledge and wouldn’t have been able to advise me.

I have since used SS for further difficulties, SW’s have been lovely and helpful ie due to the nature of my ds’s disabilities there always tends to be an element of ‘parent blame’ for difficulties to schools who do not really understand ds or the impact of disabilities. It will be written in his EHCP section D ‘no safeguarding or parental concerns’

daily I'm sure you're right.

claw absolutely. People must share bad experiences and it's essential that those equipped to fight mistakes/ misconceptions/ illegalities etc share that knowledge to help both those who aren't equipped to do so, and those who are equipped to do so in theory but at the present time really don't need the added distress of doing so from scratch with no support. And yy to your earlier post about it being inexperience with sn.

It would also be true to say inexperience with sn contributed to my personal experience, as I'm not autistic and anyone with professional knowledge of it and any desire to examine why I might have behaved/ responded as I did would have easily discovered so. Although to be entirely fair people knew less than they do now and didn't have the same resources to broaden their knowledge.

My experience:
DD at 17 went to A&E due to self harm. She was at the time under the care of a private psychiatrist.
A&E reported to SS as their protocol
I was told she had to be admitted fir a CAMHS review due to their protocol although they didn't think she was a risk.
They tried to force an admission when dd had capacity and appropriate care in place and when there was an option of an MH assessment in A&E due to her age.
CAMHS provided zilch.
SS phoned me up later that week and asked if I'd like support. The gentleman could barely speak English and couldn't tell me what support might comprise. He also addressed me by my surname, no courtesy of Miss or Mrs.
His manager later apologised, but this family still has a record of a report to SS.

If that is an example of the sor of support available for vulnerable families then God help them.
Where I live the LA children's dept has been is inadequate, the local hospital requires improvement with particular concerns raised about A&E and MH, and CAMHS has been subject to a local inquiry, is subject to scrutiny and due a CQC review at any minute.
There are embedded issues of competence and safety throughout these services.

I can't imagine why you had such experiences with SS, ethel, given the bizarre and belligerent way you speak to complete strangers online one can only imagine how you conducted yourself with professionals you didn't want to engage with. More red flags than a putting green.

thehog SS have a disabilities team. I don’t understand why CP cannot work with them, when a disability or SN is there or suspected.

Communication amoung all services is exceptional poor and one of the least expensive to fix.

Multi agency meetings are fine, as long as info sharing only takes part there. Unfortunately it does not.

nipintheair CAMHS refused to assess in A&E?

I always think respect should be earned and not automatic because if someone’s position of power. Respect and manners go both ways. I agree there are issues of competence and safety throughout services. I would struggle to be told what to do by a 23 year old with very little life experience and who was probably a bit dim as well!

I wonder if it would be better if social workers had to be older with more life experience rather than someone just out of uni.

I can only comment on the authority I work for.
Like all the LAs up and down the country we don't have a lot of money or resources to go round.
Social workers come and leave quickly to go to bigger authorities or to go on agency work.
I work in Children's services so work closely with them with my cases which are families and children. The SW work can hard and if you divided the hours they ACTUALLY work ( not contracted) it would be less than the minimum wage for many. I say this as our SW are contracted 9/5 . No overtime Monday to Friday. An example we had a foster placement broke down on Friday. SW plus a staff member drive to Lincolnshire and back to
Lancashire to pick child up. It was gone midnight befire everything was settled. The Social Worker called in to out building on Saturday, again in her own time to check the child had settled. There are numerous incidents like this where the SW wants the best outcomes for children and bust a gut to do their best.
We have a few families where the children are on a child protection plans. Removal is the worst outcome for many children but obviously things need to change. A lot if support is given to the family to facilitate change including a family support worker, housing needs officer if needed, police support ( again if needed)
The bottom line is it's better for the child to be at home with support than removed. If nothing else it costs too much to remove them and there currently isn't enough places.
I would not be a SW if it was the only career option for me in the current climate!!

iv had a couple of close experiences with ss.
one being my own, where I felt with American and English ss in one day. they both shut the case the next day.

second is through my best friend. on and off again for 7 years, she has phoned them and begged for help (no sn. just a chaotic house) they come. help but leave to soon and friend is back to square one)

3rd is with friends 17 year old sister who had a baby. they have been invloved from the start of pregnancy and have given endless support along with goals. baby is now 6 months, sadly it looks like they are going to take the baby, but have asked them to nominate some one to take her. so they are still trying to keep the baby close.
now her family (apart from friend. the sister) will all say they stole the baby but it is clear they havnt met even have the resonable goals ss set. mum diesnt engage very often, if at all. they love the baby yes. but it's not good enough.

ss do fuck up, personally I think the only way it will stop and will help the public to trust more is to open the case where theve proven to fuck up, including when the child shouldn't have been taken, and for thouse workers to be shacked
and for it to be public.

claw yes CAMHS refused to assess in A&E. The hospital's protocol is to admit all cases overnight for CAMHS assessment the following day. I asked for CAMHS to assess in A&E but although DD arrived at 2pm. I wasn't contacted until 17.48 and CAMHS only work 9-5. The consultant didn't know that at 17 dd was entitled to an adult MH assessment in A&E. The staff had told her they thought it would be a good idea if she was admitted to paeds clfor a CAMHS referral but dodn't gove her the option that were available and then said she couldn't change her mind. It was hellish. Good to know though that the NHS has £900 for an unnecessary admission but CAMHS has nothing to spend on early intervention. CAMHS the following week said she was low risk and provided some mediocre counselling about 12 weeks later. They had refused to accept her 8 months previously hence the private psychiatrist.

So this wonderful system resulted in:
SS referral due to self harm
SS referral due to mother not following A,E advice (their 16-18 protocol as published on their website WAS followed)
SS referral from CAMHS due to overprotective mother because I complained about their poor service.

No referral met SS threshold but the referrals remain on record.

The system STINKS.

Claws example yesterday of the correct procedure to take when education is involved, was spot on. It was not only the correct procedure, it was basic common sense and most importantly, in the best interests of the child.