To think some posters are naive about SS?

[fudgeraisinbiscuit]

I see many posts where people seem to believe either that SS will offer support and that parents who are loving and coping but struggling can contact them for a hand-hold, or posts where people believe a not ideal yet normal situation can and should be reported.

AIBU to think posters are naive about what SS actually do?

Copy and paste is ok and understand that things cannot be deleted off the file but the report looks completely stupid and unreadable when you have on one page the SW putting their opinions of what they have been told which then is completely and utterly refuted on the next page with expert opinion.

Any other legal reports you stick to facts, you can give an opinion separately based on what you know for fact. Only in SW can you state that someone is mentally unwell etc when there is no expert evidence to back up that claim.

From having seen some reports there seems to be an awful lot of personal opinions based on thin air and the attitude of why let facts get in the way of a good story

I am not condemning all SW’s but surely there is a need to look at all these assessments, reports, care plans and legal briefs if so much of it is just box ticking and copy and paste forms. Maybe it is time to reform and overhaul after all businesses have to constantly re-evaluate. It just seems that it is quite lazy and ineffective if so many clients are complaining about the service. As I’ve said previously the fact that family courts sit in secret and the judgments cannot be appealed should be looked into. Not in every case, but at the moment there is no recourse for a miscarriage of justice that, even statistically, must sometimes occur.

Aunt exactly, this is why I think some might be naive of SS involvement. When we think of SS we think very black and white, only involved due to neglect or abuse, which is warranted.

We forget about the ‘At risk of’ which is such a wide variation and means no neglect or abuse has taken place. ‘At risk of isolation’ is another term used for children with disabilities. Which is a strange one for children with Autism!

auntethel

I agree, lack of money does not make people lie.

Lack of money does, in my opinion, work to filter out good practitioners and retain awful ones.

Social work has a notoriously high turnover. If you are a good person who wants the best for children and works conscientiously you are less likely to stick it out in an environment that doesn't provide the means to do your work well. If you are shit and don't really care about your work you can trundle along happily.

Fourfried it was a joke about the stereotypical children SW's "steal"

Can only comment on my own experience which doesn't match all the snatching tales. I put off getting for postpartum psychosis due too reading such things.

I still have all the paperwork (that went missing from SS files) I complained to SW she had not carried out any assessments before escalating to the next stages.

I promptly received assessments, littered with errors, which showed assessment reports had been done that day and not at the time they should have! For example an assessment which should have been completed in say September and was dated September, however including in timeline and events described, dates for November!

Surely this is illegal?

There are certainly incompetent social workers; the social worker for DD1 when she first came to us didn't provide a life story book, despite constantly saying she was working on it. She never allowed us to look at what she was doing, which I guess was a clue. Instead, she hounded me about every little bruise; DD1 was learning to walk and falling over a lot, hence there were a few. I was supposed to notify her every time. She even had a go at me once after the Adoption Order had gone through, because the final Celebration Hearing hadn't taken place.

DD2's social worker was lovely, however. He did both sisters' life story books, they were virtually identical as they're birth sisters. When I informed him of one bruise, he basically said that unless there was medical treatment involved I didn't have to inform him. Our adoption social worker was visiting us regularly so he didn't visit us often. This probably wasn't good practice but I was just happy he was doing the life story books. He also showed us the drafts and allowed us to comment on them.

I think a lot of social workers are quite young and inexperienced, and are not supervised enough, personally. I watched a documentary about the Baby Peter case (we are allowed to say his name now, you know) and this was definitely the case. The social worker was young and gullible and thought the mother was a struggling mum who needed support. There was no supervision, and yes Sharon Shoesmith was responsible for that.

No one is being aggressive here, @user1457017537 . The point we're making is that SS can't do right for doing wrong, whatever decision they make they're going to be pilloried. With that in mind, it's not surprising if they get defensive or try and put their own spin on things.

It's not an excuse, obviously. I do hate the standard platitude of 'lessons will be learnt.'

toomanychilder was talking about lies from the parents in the Baby Peter case Actually, Lizzie, I was answering toomany's last question to myself and optimus.
Do you honestly believe that there are no parents that lie to ss. No? Never said that Anyhow, glad your experience had a happy ending and that your sw didn't lie, make false reports or damage dc. I had a good sw before the bad one, no worries with her at all. No false reports, no cp, just help and support.

if the solicitors and guardians 'won't help' do you not think there's something in that? Yes, but what? ....if they were lazy and corrupt like you suggest Never said or suggested that why aren't you ranting and campaigning against the legal profession. Tried that (well, campaigning) with a group of others, no joy!

No, they didn't lie, but I think that was because DH and I would have been quick to pull them up on it; we're both able to defend ourselves. That isn't the case for all parents, though, I can see that.

They could easily have destroyed our marriage, though. I made the mistake of telling DD1's therapist from Post Adoption Support some deeply personal stuff, about something that I got involved with during my really bad period. She included it in her report and the first time I saw it was at the meeting. (It wasn't entirely the therapist's fault, she had been off sick and hadn't had a chance to do a final proof read.) Thankfully, my DH knew all of it. But we were both deeply upset about it.

She also put in her report that she thought my DH showed signs of ASD. We were both angry about this, as it really wasn't her remit to comment on this.

Any other legal reports you stick to facts, you can give an opinion separately based on what you know for fact. Only in SW can you state that someone is mentally unwell etc when there is no expert evidence to back up that claim

This is a big problem I have with the whole system. Even as someone who isn't a legal professional, I know that if you make a claim or a statement about someone in court you generally have to be able to back it up with evidence in order for your claim to be plausible and valid. Except in family courts. There, social workers and other professionals are able to essentially make things up or give mere opinions with no evidence to back them up and yet their statements are presented as absolute fact in reports and in court. Whereas a parents' version of the story is completely dismissed (in my experience, obviously maybe not for everyone).

It is very difficult to provide evidence in cases of 'my word against theirs' but usually in such cases the benefit of the doubt is given to the defendant - because you cannot be more sure than not without evidence and defendants are technically innocent until proven guilty. Again, except in family courts. The whole thing is very strange and doesn't follow the normal processes of either criminal or civil courts. They are a law unto themselves.

I have an AMA thread about losing custody of my children if anyone wants to hear about my experience, don't want to clog up this thread with it too much. While I don't doubt there are many decent SWs who truly want to help and go above and beyond in their job, I sadly have not met any.

My experience dealing with them was undoubtedly the worse time of my life and has left scars that will never heal. I still have symptoms of ptsd, I can't talk about it without crying, shaking and having panic attacks and I still suffer from horrific nightmares. I just hope that the effect on my children won't be as great.

claw I had one of those, "risk of isolation" with the added effect "has no friends in the neighbourhood". Another agency reported "has friends in the neighbourhood and one boy often visits and has tea". Just like you, the printout date was at the start of cp but not released by ss until months later, too late for cp meetings.

Lizzie, DH and I were quick to pull them up on it, we sent complaints. Police were then sent to our home with harassment notices! When they saw it was just complaints (we had copies) they were left scratching their heads, bemused. The police visit was then put under Risk Assessment! Still have all the documents.

I'm not actually talking about you, @auntethel ; I was thinking of others who don't know how to defend themselves. (I was actually thinking of my DDs' birth mum. She wasn't in a position to look after her DC herself, but I've always thought the system let her down when she was a child in care.

I have noticed that social workers don't like admitting mistakes; our social worker during that time made assumptions about things and didn't want to admit that she'd been wrong about a lot of it. As I said, she came good in the end, but it was telling that she didn't like to admit mistakes.

Lizzie, I would rather have had mistakes than lies. Not putting your experience down but I think we could have coped with mistakes

Fair enough. Actually I don't see us as victims at all despite the stress. However, the DDs' birth mum certainly is a victim and I've always really felt for her. Obviously her parents were inadequate but the way she was shunted from pillar to post during her teenage is shocking.

arise, sorry that you've been through it too, It's awful isn't it? I still have nightmares too and it was ten years ago. The panic attacks started to lessen about five years ago. I hope your dc won't be too affected.

Lizzie, poor kid! The whole system needs sorting, but how?

I really don't know. I do know we need to hear more than the glib 'lessons will be learnt', though. The most important thing would be closer supervision of case social workers, I think.

What I personally resent most is the way they leave adoptive parents to pick up the pieces. Once the Adoption Order goes through you're left on your own to handle all the issues your DC have to deal with; when you ask for help you find yourself under the microscope.

And obviously we're going to have to explain it all to our DDs.

Olivers I agree with you about evidence and opinion. Yesterday toomany said Evident means something we see, not necessarily something we have evidence of. Therefore the future of a child depends on what the SW said she saw, with NO evidence!!! Scary stuff!

Money would go a long way towards fixing it. Money for early intervention and resources. Money so we don't have the problem of inexperienced sws who aren't fully supervised. Money so the experienced sws don't leave the profession because they are defeated by the system. Money because in many cases poverty and everything that goes with it causes or at least exacerbates the issue. Money for mental health services. Money to alleviate the stress/ issues of parents caring for disabled dc. Money to allow time/ resources for thorough investigations. Money so that when dc are removed they are fully supported, and especially for those that aren't in stable, long term placements, money to ensure they are emotionally and physically equipped and supported to cope both as dc and as young adults. Money so that the bad sws can be made accountable.

It won't solve deliberate lies/ the bad apples, but money would make it easier to prevent them acting in isolation, or at least would make it easier to catch them.

My friend they decided was one nationality and nothing would make them change their mind. All they kept saying that friend was delusional

Lizzie, I can well imagine. We were left to pick up the pieces with dd left at home.(one under full care order and one at home!) DD was left a wreck, the whole thing was just too much especially the threat (they actually told her) that she might be removed. After it all, she was just dumped and like you, we had to pick up the pieces. She's never really been the same since although she did manage to get through Uni and has a degree.

Olivers what happened there, if you don't mind me asking? Sounds a bit weird?

arisefromtheashes, I have read your AMA and I'm so sorry. You've been incredibly brave and It does sound as though your children are ok and at least they're with family. I sincerely hope you can recover from this. I completely understand what you mean about the Family Court. Sending you and your children strength.