To think some posters are naive about SS?

[fudgeraisinbiscuit]

I see many posts where people seem to believe either that SS will offer support and that parents who are loving and coping but struggling can contact them for a hand-hold, or posts where people believe a not ideal yet normal situation can and should be reported.

AIBU to think posters are naive about what SS actually do?

I lost my PFB to adoption, he was taken at birth because of domestic violence and how vulnerable I was as a result of the horrid things XP was subjecting me to.

I was 18 at the time and received zero support in protecting myself and getting away, no practical advise was given about fleeing, I wasn't even given an ultimatum between having contact with XP and keeping my baby, not that I wanted him in my life anyway. It would have been an easy choice to make. I was actually discouraged from moving away by SS at that time as it would have "disrupted the assessment"

I finally managed to get XP out of the house we shared and got him to move in with his mother, reluctantly. I received no help or input from SS who didn't even take it upon themselves to warn him off. I was repeated set up to fail.

SS told me 2 weeks before I gave birth they were taking him away, no emergency support or other avenues explored before reaching their decision. It was never so much as hinted to me that this would be the case. I was trapped, heavily pregnant with no family support to turn to at the time, being terrorized by an abuser I did in fact want rid of.

He was adopted shortly after and I'll never be the same again. I fought harder than I'd ever fought in my life but I was absolutely annihilated in court by the SW's reports, where a lot of facts were embellished.

In order to secure their desired outcome they ripped my character to pieces, using the fact my DM had SS involvement when I was a child. Telling the judge my parenting provisions from my DM were so poor I couldn't possibly be a good parent.

The risk was always from XP but they absolutely slaughtered me in the process to make sure there was no room for "well what about considering AsYouAre as a mum away from father"

I now receive one letter per annum but no photographs, the L.A where I used to live don't agree to photo exchanges in a lot of cases. I think In case the birth parent uses photos to track down the child, I digress.

The experience has scarred me for life.

Years down the line i fell pregnant again (new partner, new area) and I reluctantly referred myself to social services and was open about my PFB and my history. SS were my worst nightmare and as soon as I found out I was pregnant I went into a panic thinking I was going to lose this baby too. Abortion was never an option for me so I braced myself for fight number two.

I was appointed a senior social worker who assessed me and went over all of the paperwork from my PFB's case. I was shitting myself throughout, never reassured despite the fact it was clear the SW wasn't against me.

SW got to know me and my history, I gave her a mountain of paperwork (warts and all) and she was absolutely disgusted by the lack of support I was given with my baby, she said it was clear that they had already made up their minds for adoption and weren't prepared to consider anything but that - I was never given a chance and received not one iota of support. It was constantly reiterated that the way I'm described in reports is nothing like me, it was like reading about another person.

The risk from my XP was massive and that was never up for dispute but I needed help, for me and my baby. I received none. It was a miscarriage of justice.

This was coming from a senior professional who had been in the job much much longer than the two social workers who fought to remove my son.

She pointed out how different everything would have been if they had tried just once to keep us together, supporting a mother and baby unit or facilitating a move away from the violent father.

It was concluded after a meeting with her management and legal team (such meetings are required when somebody has previously had a baby removed at birth) that I didn't need SS involvement at all and my case was closed. I received the news via the telephone two days before I went into labour and almost collapsed with relief.

Despite her constant reassurance I always believed I was going to lose my DC2 at birth, I'd been so scarred by what happened I couldn't consider the possibility anybody would ever give me a chance.

the SW came round after my baby was born to wish us all the best for the future and brought baby a teddy bear.

I will never forget the kindness and empathy she showed me and DC2, I was genuinely saddened to see her go. I was in a daze for a few weeks after that, I kept thinking to myself "they've actually let me be a mum"

DS is coming up 1 year soon and I'm going to send her a thank you card with a small update. I know she was touched by our story so think she'd be pleased to know how we're getting on.

So as you can see I've had two very conflicting experiences with SS. I will always stand by (now validated by other SS professionals) that the way SS handled my PFB's case was wrong, they ruined my life and have robbed my baby of a chance with his very capable mummy. FWIW I'm a good mum, my DC is thriving and is very loved. I treasure him completely because I know loss.

My second experience with SS has reinstated my faith in them, I now believe that there is some brilliant SW's out there who genuinely care and strive to keep children with their parents if possible.

I've no doubt in my mind had I had DC2 in my hometown where I had DC1, they would have tried to have him adopted too or at the very least put us on a child protection register based on the past.

I intend to revisit my PFB's case with a solicitor in time armed with my recent assessment and the SW's findings. Unfortunately adoption is for life so I'll probably never get my DC1 back, but I don't want what happened to me to happen to anybody else.

My story is on here somewhere, posted from an old account. Some might remember me (hiya!)

Sorry that's long. Well done If you got this far!

@AsYouAre

I have no words for you. Stories like yours are why I utterly believe forced adoption should not be legal. I just think the price is too great, and I do mean from both the parent and childs point of view. Taking a baby away from it's mother straight after birth is the stuff of nightmares and I honestly believe one wrong call among thousands is too big a price to pay.

I have just dealt with social services and tbh they were great to me.

That is just what has happened to me and all I can comment on

Thank you @tessliketrees I agree

I was also blocked from meeting the adopters because I wouldn't comply with the adoption and flatly refused to give up.

Just being able to meet them would have brought me some peace, if any could have been found in such circumstances.

5 years later, every year when I write to DC1 via the letterbox service I write a separate letter to the adopters. I want them to hear my side of the story and hear the findings of SS in my new town, my letters are always sent back by the LA there who refuse to pass them on. I'm still being gagged now and believe in my heart of hearts that the adopters (who are devout Christians and by all accounts from what I know to be lovely people) have no idea of the anguish SS put me through.

Ironically the two SW who did this to us have now left. Coincidence? I think not

Hello again, Yes I remember you very well and am so happy to hear that things are going so well for you with your new baby. I recall how incredibly honest you were about your past and how so many posters encouraged you to self-refer, which you bravely did (ignoring the nut-jobs who advised you to flee the country)in the belief that you would get a fair hearing this time. That took such courage. I remember when you posted that you were about to have your baby and your SW turned out to be supportive - it was the outcome you so deserved. Nothing can turn back the clock sadly for your first born but I am so impressed with the strength and resilience you have shown which has enabled you to enjoy your new baby while fighting on to address the woeful treatment you experienced the first time. At some point in the future, this will mean everything to your first born. Thanks so much for updating us!

@meandthem Thank you for your kind words. Its nice to know people remember my case as I found mumsnet to be a huge support, I can't thank the posters enough who held my hand through the assessment x

Adoptive parent here, we have 2 DDs, birth siblings, now aged 9 and 6. They came to us separately, both aged 1. It's s long, tortuous process and there are so many challenges, though I would never regret it.

I think the reason they adopt younger children out and leave older children with their birth parents is that the consequences of removal from their birth families are so much greater when children are older and there's a far greater likelihood that the adoption will break down. The children would then go back into care, the chances of placing them with foster families that can cope with them are not good.

It would also cause more trauma in a lot of cases to remove them than to leave them where they are.

Social workers make bad mistakes sometimes, and obviously there are some that are very poor. But they're dealing with situations where there aren't any easy solutions.

Found out when my daughter was 10 months that my ex and his ex wife had there kids taken in to care. I was the innocent party, no idea he had kids. My child ended up on the child protection register for 6 months for ‘sexual abuse’ I was disgusted, i was the innocent party, never harmed my child. They were horrendous, I almost took my own life because if it. Never helped me once. I’ve had no more children because of this and what I was put through

I think some social workers lack life experience and are woefully inadequate to deal with some of the people they come across in their work. I think some mean well and try the best for their clients. Not many men go into social work and I don’t think there is a balance in areas like Child Protection. Without a doubt, the money spent on legal fees and Court Cases would be better off spent helping young, inexperienced people and giving them the support they obviously need. Asyouare’s case is shocking that CP did not try to help her or protect her from her abuser. Especially as she was 18 at the time. Some CP social workers are intimidated by their clients who have no difficulty manipulating everyone around them.

I haven't had time to read all replies so apologies for that.
I.am a foster carer and adoptor of many years experience. Not saying I am the oracle but just making the point that I have experience of the system etc
I have had dealings with social workers who have ranged from fantastic to absolute crap. Some of it you couldn't make up tbh. But all.the child protection ones have been absolutely excellent and I have to say I would not do their job for anything.
The main point I wanted to.make is that I have yet to meet a birth parent who can admit to any wrongdoing . It is always the sw and system at fault when they lose their children and everybody is against them etc etc. It is a huge conspiracy to steal their child for adoption targets and so on. I have seen families given support for long periods , sometimes years ,to try to resolve the issues all to no avail. Some parents just cannot put their kids needs first for many reasons sadly.
Now no doubt mistakes are made and theire are some miscarriages of justice ( if that is the right phrase for it ) as no system is infallible. Anyway we adopted our youngest foster child and so we knew the family well and all the background because the child had lived with us throughout.
They were on the sw stole my child type websites and if you read their story on there you would be ready to take up arms anf march on parliament. But there is no mention whatsoever of all the other children already removed for severe neglect or if the domestic violence inflicted upon them . I have read the court papers and it would make your hair stand on end . It is horrific reading what vulnerable children endured in their own home but social services cannot give their side and to me there in lies the problem.
You are getting a one sided emotive snapshot of anecdotal evidence and not access to cold hard facts.
I am sorry for all who have lost their children but I would rather live in a country where vulnerable kids are removed and released for adoption than see them left in homes where more and more damage is inflicted which in my experience is surprisingly common and more of an issue than wrong removal. I think many families are given too many chances and I know lots of foster carers who would agree as we pick up the pieces down the line.

Slightly off topic but is usual for someone to be a disability social worker to a child who is in the same class as their own child at school.

asyouare

I think some people forget that abuse or neglect are not the only reasons children are removed.

What other reasons are there? Am I being naive?

The example that asyouare just gave. ‘At risk of’ where no abuse or neglect has happened. Where ‘risk’ could be removed,

"At risk of future emotional harm" is the best one they've ever come up with. Covers everything!! Another good one (although not used quite as much now) is 'attachment theory', which is exactly what it says just 'a theory' Very useful in the family courts though, as many parents have had the misfortune to find out.

Oh yes ‘At risk of emotional harm’ covers an extremely wide range!

In our case my son could not attend school due to disability. My GP had signed him off and referred to CAMHS. In SW’s opinion this amounted to ‘At risk of emotional harm’.

The more I objected, the more this SW rammed it up and threatened me which CP proceedings. She had not even done a core assessment!

In my case it was "risk of emotional harm" and DC1 was removed on the possibility of if buts and maybes.

I do think SS are right to act promptly in some cases, for example when a baby is born addicted to drugs, or when the parents have convictions for child cruelty, or when the parents have had children removed previously and the circumstances haven't changed. Etc

Its just sad that because they are so over stretched they like anybody can make mistakes, but those human errors can be catastrophic for the families involved

The main point I wanted to.make is that I have yet to meet a birth parent who can admit to any wrongdoing . It is always the sw and system at fault when they lose their children and everybody is against them etc etc. It is a huge conspiracy to steal their child for adoption targets and so on. I have seen families given support for long periods , sometimes years ,to try to resolve the issues all to no avail. Some parents just cannot put their kids needs first for many reasons sadly

100% this. I've been involved with families where there was years and years of support, fostering and returning children, chance after chance after chance for parents to keep their children, and when the children are finally removed it is almost always blamed on social services and evil baby snatchers. It's a conspiracy, its unfair, they stole my children, I'm a good mother.
It's so sad to see and you do feel for the parents, but its so much sadder for the children who have been in and out of foster care for years and quite honestly would have been far better off removed years earlier, probably at birth some of them.

My children's birth mother has two previous children (now adults) who were subjected to horrific neglect and abuse up to the age of 6(ish) - trying to be deliberately vague. Numerous training courses, mother and baby services and centres etc, additional support failed. They were exposed to christ knows what and it's only through flashbacks experienced by the oldest child that we are beginning to truly know the extent of what happened.
Her birth family are the source of the issue, schedule 1 offenders still safely embraced by the family, huge history of difficult relationships etc. If birth mother had been taken into care as a child and not left in that situation she may have been able to keep her children who she loves completely. She knows that and is rightly angry about it.
My kids were on the at risk register before birth because of what happened before. She got pregnant within 3 months of the birth of the eldest because she thought if she kept having children SS would get bored and let her keep one. This is in spite of a hell of a lot of support from social services and health services.
Mistakes get made, and that is awful (and I know some terrible social workers). But all this talk of 'forced adoption' is just a daily mail tactic used by certain groups of people, whipped up by a media which loves to create a drama.
The bottom line is that abuse can affect lives for generations and sometimes difficult decisions have to be made. As someone who has seen the impact of repeated attempts to give birth parents another chance rather than make the decision to remove a child my view is that this is cruel to everyone involved but social workers do a thankless job. It's easier to sit and bitch about them than actually do something about it.

do you think thats a problem Septemberisnearlyhere ?

I had involvement with SS when my kids were tiny due to my parents dying when i was 26...they caused me extra anguish and stress and i would never approach them in any way shape or form.

The bottom line is that abuse can affect lives for generations. Exactly, and that works both ways. There are a number of cases on here now whose families have been abused by sw's and/or the system. One poster yesterday said it still made her cry as she recounted her experience. The abuse continues, both ways.

If you are in a position where social services become involved with your family you most likely don't have objective judgement at that time. It may be that they aren't involved because of your poor judgment or it may be that you have had an event in your life that has completely shaken you - illness, bereavement, domestic violence, crime etc. Either way you are vulnerable and frightened. That is why a SS referral is terrifying at the time.

Autocorrect fail. Should say are involved because of your poor judgment.

Ted27 yes I think it could be a problem because of the particular circumstances. There is more to it than just being at the same school. I'm conscious of having to be very careful what I say to them compared to a social worker where there is no connection - not because I think they may gossip by the way. It's for other reasons.
I thought it was odd that my child was put on this person's caseload.