Rise of measles

[crosstalk]

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/european-measles-death-toll-hits-37-after-antivax-campaigns-ztmwl9f3q

Just saying

No grimbles

Adult women need to take responsibility for their own health, not expect my children to.

I don't get the selfish attitude. If a child was unable medically to be vaccinated, chances are parents would be hoping that every child who can be vaccinated is, to protect theirs who can't be. Yet parents of children who can be - and for whom the risk of vaccine damage is tiny - don't think outside their own little unit & thus put others at risk. It boggles me.

Adult women need to take responsibility for their own health, not expect my children to

So how can I ensure that I don't risk my foetus unless I know if your kids are vaccinated or not?

By being vaccinated, obviously

@serbska was that aimed at my comment about doing my own research? If so 1. I don’t work in office admin or retail (not that there is anything wrong with those jobs, despite your derisive tone) 2. I have 2 GP’s and a 6th year medical student in DH’s family, all 3 of whom I spoke to in depth about the MMR and it’s potential side effects, plus the correlation to causing autism. They sent me reams of information and articles, so yes some of us have access to proper scientific, peer reviewed research.

If you’re so bothered that people can’t access the correct and proper information then why not help them rather than laugh at them? I mean I presume you must be medically/science trained?

@disclosingshite the whole vaccination thing is based on en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity
Some of the herd can't take responsibility for their own health (immune suppressed, allergies or being too young etc) and need the rest of the herd to get vaccinated for the good of the whole population.

But vaccinations aren't needed!

I think disclosing means it is your responsibility to ensure you are vaccinated not her responsibility to make sure her kids are, to stop you catching it from them.

@MynameisJune no I didn't see your comments, but it obviously touched a nerve.

You don't have access to papers yourself, you relied on other people to give them to you (inherent bias you can't control for) and interpret them for you.

Nothing wrong with those jobs, but they aren't exactly in the field of medical or scientific research and analysis are they?

If you’re so bothered that people can’t access the correct and proper information then why not help them rather than laugh at them? I mean I presume you must be medically/science trained?

I have no access to pay-wall medical journals. I make no claims that I know more vaccines than doctors and medical researchers and policy makers.

Unlike you... who thinks you are an expert in vaccines because you read a few papers some family members (wooooo 2 GPs AND a 6th year medical student!) gave you.

How can I take responsibility for my son? He’s immunitied but there are no guarantees. Now he has a very low immune system. Coughs and cold could be very serious.
People running around with healthy children thinking they will always be make me what to shake them. Do you realise how precious your child’s health is?! Picture yourself in a and e catching a worried look between drs. What about holding your child’s hand in the middle of the night when they are barely breathing. Did you research that?

They don’t need rubella because they are infants who will not be of childbearing age for over a decade. They don’t need mumps because they are girls.

So they are not going to be in school or nursery where there are often pregnant women working and /or dropping off older children.

Mumps is fucking awful, I remember it, and for me it was 40+ years ago.

Are you happy for your children to be seriously ill and possibly pass that on to any little boys/men in school?

Added to that they may become infertile from mumps, now your dds may not want children, but they also may do.

@disclosing.

I'm still interested to know why you think your girls need their measles vaccinations now, but not any others?

That’s exactly what I mean riding

grimbles mumps is not (usually) a disease with serious side effects, I will take the risk there. They do not need rubella as they are 3 and 1 and won’t be getting pregnant in the near future.

I'm still interested to know why you think your girls need their measles vaccinations now, but not any others?

I will put money on it being due to the 'aw, shiiiiit' factor caused by the marked rise in reported cases of measles.

No, not really. Measles is serious, the other two are not serious, ergo, I will vaccinate for measles but not for mumps or rubella, it’s not that difficult tbh.

Those arguing the toss on whether vaccines are useful or meaningful need to consider how measles epidemics like the one in Europe this summer start- here's a clue: because people believed the quack Wakefield and didn't vaccinate.

The only way to stop this epidemic spreading is to make sure as many people as possible are vaccinated.

And for the antivaxxers to keep themselves and their children out of society to prevent further spread of diseases.

mumps is not (usually) a disease with serious side effects

I posted the mumps stats earlier. 1 in 20 risk of meningitis is, medically, classed as common rather than rare or unusual.

I think disclosing means it is your responsibility to ensure you are vaccinated not her responsibility to make sure her kids are, to stop you catching it from them.

And what of those members of society who are unable to vaccinate? Tough luck?

I would not advocate mandatory vaccinations (although I do think you should take the consequences of your decisions - eg only be able to access public schools etc if vaccinated, as is the case where I live) but there is no disguising that those who do not vaccinate for non medical reasons are monumentally selfish individuals who put their own desires ahead of the common good, while freeloading on the herd immunity provided by the rest of the vaccinators in society. And when an outbreak of measles or whatever happens, they are right - their older children probably will survive it ok. It is the unvaccinated infants and immuno suppressed who will most likely suffer the most serious consequences.

I honestly could not be friends with someone who was this selfish.

Sorry, it's a 1 in 7 risk of meningitis. I got muddled up. It's pancreatitis that carries the 1 in 20 risk.

For anyone who missed it, here are the statistics on complications associated with catching mumps.

Around 1 in 7 children - male and female - who contract mumps will develop viral meningitis.

1 in 20 develop pancreatitis.

1 in 20 experience temporary hearing loss, for some this will develop into permanent hearing loss.

1 in 20 females who contract mumps will have swelling of the ovaries, it's as painful as it sounds.

1 in 1000 develop encephalitis, a life threatening complication.

It's is not a mild disease.

I have 2 GP’s and a 6th year medical student in DH’s family, all 3 of whom I spoke to in depth about the MMR and it’s potential side effects, plus the correlation to causing autism. They sent me reams of information and articles, so yes some of us have access to proper scientific, peer reviewed research
That's interesting because there is absolutely no peer reviewed evidence on Pubmed or it's ilk supporting Wakefield and an MMR autism link, and yes I have access. It'll be because there isn't actually any evidence.

Just think though. If everyone vaccinated their kids you wouldn't have to worry about any of them! There's be no weighing up the comparative risks of contracting each illness and what the complications might be.

Just like we don't have to worry about lots of other diseases that used to be quite common.

@serbska no you didn’t touch a nerve I was just wondering. You’ve also confirmed for me that you’re just judgemental for no reason.

I had my DD vaccinated, my research was because my mum linked the MMR to my brothers autism and she terrified me that it would happen to my own children. I also never claimed to be an expert on vaccines, yes I had help from family.

Your comment of ‘having a laugh’ piqued my Interest to see if you were just an out and out bitch or had some actual training to back up your derision of other people’s concerns. Part of the reason anti-Vaxxers won’t listen is because of people like you claiming they are ignorant and cannot understand medical terms/scientific research. Judging them and laughing isn’t going change their outlook is it?

I too remember having Mumps and Measles; it was grim.
My sister wears jam jar glasses due to measles.
My uncle died a couple of years ago due to post polio syndrome. He had been using crutches since he was seven and contracted polio. You know those horrific pictures you see of kids in an iron lung - he was one of them.

Ok studiously ignore the fact that your child’s health can turn on a knife edge and suddenly these “not serious” diseases become a problem.

Do you avoid other modern life savers btw? Pasteurised milk? Seat belts? Hand washing?

Those things don’t carry a risk, albeit a small risk.