IVF and alchohol?

[Holymosquito]

An old school friend has confided in me that she and her partner are TTC. Both of them are late 30s and they have been trying for almost a year. Investigations have revealed that he has a low sperm count. They are now about to start IVF.

However they both IMO drink heavily. She claims to have cut back to only 3 pints or glasses of wine a night. He drinks far more - I don’t know him well but on the occasions we have met he has drunk upwards of 7 pints in an evening. My friend says this is normal for him.

AIBU to think that to start IVF without tackling the drinking is madness? I am also concerned that if they/he cannot reduce this alchohol consumption then they are going to have real issues with a baby?

I am 😑 at the people in this thread who were lucky enough to conceive first time with ivf, being shitty at someone who has not been as lucky as them.

Yes it does work first time for some people. And they are incredibly lucky they’ve never had to go through the soul-tearing grief of a failed ivf cycle.

Yes of course the website has an axe to grind - it’s obvioysly a place for people to share their stories to redress the balance (and is likely a cathartic process for them as well).

Why does it make you so angry that there is one person on here saying ‘ivf doesn’t work for everyone?’

Thanks @Clairetree1 no it didn’t work for us. Not for want of trying. A really traumatic time. Everything that could possibly go wrong did go wrong. Glad it worked for you.

And thank you @MindatWork.

But there always will be,why on earth wouldn't their be.

After 10 years of trying and having read thoroughly the small print and sat through counselling we were well aware of any risks and possible negatives. All 100% worth it and then some.

Everything in life has a downside and risk,even conceiving naturally.

I don’t think people are having a go at someone it failed for, they’re simply saying that you can’t say a treatment doesn’t work because you were unlucky.

Morphine doesn’t work for me (yes really) but to others it’s a very good pain relief drug.

YANBU

DH and I were trying for 3 years, had some tests and found DH had a sperm issue, quite a big drinker (2-3 pints to unwind most nights, more at the weekend), also high caffeine and smoker. Also, I’m overweight, obese actually, BMI 31. Fertility clinic referral and had initial appointment with nurse.

Both went on a health kick, joined a gym, I lost 20lbs, DH gave up alcohol and caffeine for a month completely and then vastly reduced it thereafter.

2.5 months after those tests I found out I was pregnant and my 12 week scan is this week. My first appointment with the consultant re IVF should have been last week.

I know this doesn’t work for everyone but it did for us.

We are in the category that website wants to hear from - a stillborn ivf baby and a ivf baby with disabilities. They won't be hearing from us because I know ivf didn't cause those things.

That should read overall success rate of i vf is NOT what op is asking.
Mindatwork -I am not intending to be like that and I apologise if it comes our on that way. I have been through both the joys and anguish of treatment cycles and honestly know how hard it is when it fails.
I haven't read the link so can't comment on it. My response is in reply to the comment from 30 who implied ivf wasn't worth bothering with at all.

@blair I’m not taking about @30hours who is the one who said it doesnt work at all so you might as well drink.

I’m taking about @serenDippity who hasn’t actually said anywhere that it ‘doesn’t work’, or that ‘no one should bother because it didn’t work for me’, just raising the issue that all the stories around ivf are positive ‘I got my miracle baby’ stories when that isn’t necessarily the case for many many couples.

Some posters seem to be taking that as some sort of personal insult to the fact that it worked for them and are getting a bit aggy, which has irked me a bit.

I weirdly still identify as someone who is unlikely to have children (despite being 23 weeks pregnant). Years of failed fertility treatment has left many scars, and it always felt so lonely to be the one person in a sea of lovely ‘it worked for me!’ stories. If more people talked openly about it perhaps there would’t be such an issue (but as you can see from this thread, people often don’t like to hear that not everyone gets a happy ending).

Anyway, I’m going to step away now as this is getting a bit close to home for me.

Drs on both sides of the Atlantic told me there was no point in continuing with IVF treatment (after only 4 cycles) because my uterus was too damaged to sustain a pregnancy

I know women who've had 21 cycles and no live births

Or 17 cycles and no live births

Or 9 miscarriages and no live births

But I also know women who've been successful first time

IVF absolutely doesn't work for everyone and isn't a sure shot magical fix

It does work for many, but not all. Doesn't mean it's not worth trying. And whilst for the most part it comes down to science and luck, there's no question that alcohol can affect sperm quantity and quality, ask any andrologist

I'm writing a book to share real women stories about the reality of experiencing infertility and/ or pregnancy loss - stories that don't always end in a baby - if anyone would be willing to share their thoughts, I've got a questionnaire to enable people to contribute anonymously: I've been overwhelmed by the incredible stories people have shared, would be honoured if anyone would consider adding theirs

uberbarrens.club/share

I don’t think people are having a go at someone it failed for, they’re simply saying that you can’t say a treatment doesn’t work because you were unlucky.

Equally you can’t say a treatment that is known to fail quite often generally “works” because you were lucky and it worked for you.

Apologies @talkingfrog, my first ranty post wasn’t aimed at you!

Anyone who is ttc is unwise to be drinking to that extent. I don't think the ivf aspect is important except that they will be reducing their chances with something they will be paying a lot of money for ( it won't be NHS funded in that timescale).

Actually mind would you like me to list our 10 year infertility nightmare-
7 years TTC with PCOS,endo,blocked tube and dodgy sperm
2x lap and dye
1x ovarian drilling
1 incredibly painful massive egg harvest due to reaction to drugs
1x near death OHHS and blue light rush to hospital followed by long stay in hospital high dependency
1 x failed fresh IVF cycle
Loss of 4 perished frozen embryos

1 successful frozen embryo transfer

1 x highly stressful twin pregnancy
All bar the pg and high dependency funded by us with the bills to prove it and fund.

All 100% worth it. I'd never in a million years state it's not worth it for other couples because we had a shitty time.

And before anybody claims my pg and blue light visit is a burden to the NHS we are very clean living,high tax payers whose infertility misery was already costing the NHS a fortune.

In IVF they will be implanting the best fertilised egg (or 2/3!) so presumably the IVF element is giving them a higher chance despite their lifestyles than they would usually have

And it's not about luck,it's about bringing the chances up for many to a similar playing field as naturally conceiving couples. The fact the odds aren't hugely in favour is no reason for couples not to do it.

We're all lucky to be here,naturally conceived or assisted.

I think people think the natural conception rate is higher than it is. It’s 1/5 per month.

If more people talked openly about it perhaps there would’t be such an issue (but as you can see from this thread, people often don’t like to hear that not everyone gets a happy ending).

Yes THIS

This is why I'm trying to write the book

@MindatWork congratulations on your pregnancy, wishing you a happy and healthy rest of pregnancy and a beautiful son or daughter

I'd be honoured if you'd consider sharing your thoughts - there's a chapter about parenting after infertility, but the really important thing is that the book doesn't end with a miracle baby. It ends with the stories of couples who didn't get there, but who've found meaningful and fulfilling lives, even though life didnt work out how they planned. Because every single book I read when going throughout IVF had the obligatory happy ending!

I’m sorry for your bad experiences P3onyPenny, and I’m glad you’ve had success. My story is v similar to yours, except a few more cycles and a singleton pregnancy.

But the only person on this thread who has said that it’s not worth bothering with is 30hours, who I agree is talking rubbish.

Other people are just trying to share their experiences to present a more balanced view and are getting jumped on.

My reaction when I read about someone who hasn’t been successful with ivf is profound sorrow and sympathy. Not to argue with them.

In IVF they will be implanting the best fertilised egg (or 2/3!) so presumably the IVF element is giving them a higher chance despite their lifestyles than they would usually have

You can't transfer more than 2 embryos unless you're over 40. Alcohol can increase the level of sperm DNA fragmentation, so if he has male factor as well, it's not going to optimise their chances, though ultimately it's primarily down to science and luck, rather than anything in our control.

Mindatwork - you are making some very valid points. No apology needed.

P3onypenny -sorry to hear the nightmare you have been through. Glad you had success in the end. I had ohss too, but not as bad as yours (a day patient for 2 days. On a drop for the first and just monitored for the second ).

Surely Serendipity you were told of the chances re it working and the risks.

We were,most thoroughly. We were warned the first cycle is often a fact finding mission.I had resigned myself to 3 cycles as we were told it often took a couple of goes in the same way it would for fertile couples. I'd never expect to get pregnant in the first 3 months of trying even I was uber fertile.

I knew the risks of OHSS and what to look out for.

My dp had an op last year and was informed of the risks and success rate,ditto a family member going through treatment for cancer. These things are never a done deal but you weigh up the risks/possibilities with your individual case.

I find it interesting the way IVF is continuously lambasted but other high risk not a given treatments aren't.

Banana, we had two embryos transferred when I was 33. So did a friend of mine who was 27. I was NHS, she wasn’t. Both successful - one child each.

IVF absolutely does not always work. It’s a sad fact that the odds are against every cycle.

However, there are 8 people in my office and two had successful first time IVF. It IS worth trying, in most cases.

Good luck with your book Banana, it sounds great.

It is true that the media concentrates on ivf 'miracle' success stories.

DH drank more than average, more than the recommended units. His sperm count was low. Private ivf doc told him to give up drinking for three months and come back for a test. He had a liver test also. It had him worried because his parents are drinkers and suffer ill health because of it, so he did stop. 3 month’s later and his sperm count was about 10 times better. The doctor said he saw it all the time and that quality would have improved as well as quantity.