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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Is it a right to have Kids you can’t afford!?!

451 replies

KN2212 · 18/08/2018 22:41

I am totally fed up of listening to people complain about how broke they are after having kids. Babies and childcare are cripplingly expensive but that’s pretty much common knowledge, right?

I fell out with a long term friend of mine about a year ago. Since the birth of her DD all she did was complain about the situation she’d orchestrated.
Her and her (now ex) partner had no home of their own, low income, high debt and no savings when they decided to go ahead and have a child (though granted had been together for 7 years). The poor boyfriend busted his butt working 13 hour shifts 6 days a week in a call centre whilst they all lived in one cramped room at her parents and she complained he wasn’t doing enough. Due to her crippling shopping debts and inability to hold a job they were never going to make enough to live and knew that pre getting pregnant.

(Other friends are in similar situations, complaining about how they ‘can’t afford to go back to work’ because of childcare costs but equally can’t afford to live if they don’t go back to work!!! Come on and take some responsibility you knew this was going to be your situation.)

Whilst she was complaining over coffee one day about how the benefit system wasn’t giving her enough free money I called her out on her obvious poor planning and asked why she didn’t wait and save pre child. She got very defensive and said that they were never going to be able to afford a child due to their financial situation so why bother waiting?

It just got me thinking really hard, since when did having children become a right? It seemed so clear to her that she deserved to have a child despite not being able to afford one and that the government should now support her because she deserved to have her daughter.
Am I wrong in thinking that having children you can’t support is completely irresponsible and shitty and entitled?

I know a lot of women who want kids but are having to wait and plan and save and do it ‘the right way’ it seems unfair to them. When women like my ex friend do exactly what they want without planning and then hold the government over a barrel saying that their kids don’t have food and clothes. It just sucks like the children shouldn’t have to suffer but the tax payer shouldn’t have to pay for your unfair choices.

To clarify I have empathy for unplanned pregnancy’s no contraception is 100% but that’s not the kind of situation I’m talking about here. I’m talking about planned pregnancies.

OP posts:
Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 19/08/2018 17:16

What happens to them, Coyoacan? Presumably they’re not abandoned on the streets?

Kr3000 · 19/08/2018 17:25

A little bit concerned here that it's not a person's "right" to have children. Who decides who has this right?

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 19/08/2018 17:33

Have you actually bothered to read the thread, Kr3000?
With rights come responsibilities. Your right to have children does not transfer responsibility to the government to pay for their upkeep.

Kr3000 · 19/08/2018 17:49

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar to be honest, I've not read the whole thread as I have a one year old who is starting nursery, which I will be paying for in a few days, as I will be returning to work. However, should it be means tested? A certain level of savings? Own house?

lowtide · 19/08/2018 17:52

Tax credits
Says it all really!

MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 19/08/2018 18:13

Well they won’t get benefits any more minister

I'm aware it will be capped at two children. So are they, yet it doesn't stop them having more! They continue to claim what they were claiming before and then seem surprised when the benefits they werent managing on before are stretched even further and they end up in even more debt. So I (and many others like me) continue to buy things out of my own pocket for their children as well as frantically ringing round various voluntary agencies (who are already stretched to breaking point) acquiring donations of furniture, carpets, food parcels, clothes etc, (which really isn't my job) because as frustrated as I am with the parents that doesn't stop my heart breaking for the kids who have absolutely no choice whatsoever.

Kingkiller · 19/08/2018 18:33

Of course it's people's right to have children. Unless there's been a law passed that I don't know about? I guess you don't mean legal right then... So what kind of right do you mean? If you mean moral right, then that's a meaningless comment really, because you don't get to decide what other people's moral rights are.

People have always had the right to have children regardless of their ability to provide for them. Yes, that means that some people have children inadvisedly, but if the alternative is draconian laws controlling bodily autonomy and childbearing, I don't see that as at all desirable. Maybe financial incentives to have fewer children?

Metoodear · 19/08/2018 18:49

Nope but plenty will say you will

We had to have a financial check before we adopted our kids to show we could afford them

PenelopeShitStop · 19/08/2018 19:00

Children are a privilege, not a divine right.

You don't have to be affluent to be a parent, but yes you absolutely should be able to provide a reasonable standard of basic living for your child. Don't plan a child that you know you won't be able to properly take care of.

Far too many parents are far too happy to let others fund their children's lives.

Alexalee · 19/08/2018 19:05

Meetoodear... it's a shame the same test can't be performed on everyone

Junkmail · 19/08/2018 19:10

I think sometimes people forget that having a child is a choice and not a right. Can’t afford it? Don’t have kids.

Metoodear · 19/08/2018 19:18

Alexalee

Meetoodear... it's a shame the same test can't be performed on everyone

very my children are 1 of 15 and the other is 1 of 8 neither set of birth parents ever worked

lowtide · 19/08/2018 19:33

It’s all well and good whinging about it.
But what do you actually want to happen!!??

In life, there will always be people who work hard, save hard, pay taxes, take nothing, there will always be people who abuse systems.

This is not a race to the bottom, our society has to show that we are a society who cares for all. No one knows what will happen next year, next week, or tomorrow.

This is all a bit hysterical, go live in a country where the poor are fucking poor and the rich are fucking rich and see if there are less poor people having kids? It just doesn’t work like that! It’s just stupidity and a bit of envy. Why should they get support when I work so hard myself.
We don’t have the easiest benefit system, we don’t have the hardest benefit system.

knittingdad · 19/08/2018 19:41

..since when did having children become a right?

Since the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in 1948. It's Article 16.

That doesn't mean everyone else is obliged to pay for it, but I think it's a bit rough on the children to force them to suffer for their parent's choices.

Coyoacan · 19/08/2018 19:51

There is so much more to being a parent than having money, this conversation is mad.

Some of the most damage people I know come from wealthy families.

littlechocolatechippies · 19/08/2018 19:58

I think YANBU but you will get a lot of criticism. On the other hand if your friend came to MN complaining about her situation she would be torn to pieces :" Haven't you thoughr about moneeey before conceiving OP?".

Don't get angry on it.

Aintnothingbutaheartache · 19/08/2018 20:24

Why does everyone think that having a child is a right?
It’s an absolute blessing and not one that everyone can have.
I want a Mercedes, can I afford it? No? Then tough shit, it’s not my right to have one.
I want a Mercedes, can I afford it. Yes? Then you go right ahead, you’ve worked for it, you’ve earned it.
I want a child is a totally different matter.
The simple, basic fact is, if you cannot afford to provide a child with basic necessities, then do not have a child

UpstartCrow · 19/08/2018 20:31

If you think having a child is not a right, you have to make birth control and abortion easy to access on demand.

Aintnothingbutaheartache · 19/08/2018 20:33

It is

Iamagreyhoundhearmeroar · 19/08/2018 20:36

Of course it is, Upstart? Isn’t that the whole point, that there is an actual choice involved in these decisions?

UpstartCrow · 19/08/2018 20:41

No, it isnt. Its possible for women to fall through the net.
Thats why there are private clinics for women who can afford it, and you can usually buy a morning after pill at the chemist (but it took a campaign by women to get the price down to £8 in one store)

I know women who were denied an abortion because their GP was anti abortion. They were told that if they tried to change GP their notes would be 'lost'. There are women who have been denied the morning after pill by the pharmacist.

Its pointless having a right that only exists on paper.

Itschristmas32 · 19/08/2018 20:42

Everyone has the right to have a child.

Some incredibly poor, very underprivileged parents do an amazing, caring, loving job and raise beautiful, kind, compassionate citizens that contribute to society and make a positive difference.

Some filthy rich parents abuse and mess up their children.

Everyone is different.

Being poor doesn't make you a bad parent and being rich doesn't make you a good one.

Denying someone the right to have a baby based on money is like something from a scary futuristic movie.

DieAntword · 19/08/2018 20:44

I currently work in the educational sector. Last term a 8-year-old girl said she wanted to go to dance lessons at the village hall (£3 per session) but "my mummy doesn't have the money as we're poor".

She's one of 4; 10,8,4,3 - her mum is a nursery worker (gets free childcare with that) and her dad works in a warehouse. The parents should have thought about the costs of having kids a) shouldnt if had so many b) waited a while to build up their careers before having a large family.

Dance lessons are not a “cost of having kids” they’re an optional extra. £3 a week may not seem like much (lord knows I waste more than that on diet fizzy drinks and coffees a day let alone a week) but if someone is living on the margin of their income it might be that extra bit too much. Which of the woman’s children do you think would be better off never existing at all so her sister could go to dance class?

Aintnothingbutaheartache · 19/08/2018 20:45

It’s not a matter of rich or poor, private or state, share a bedroom or have an en suite to yourself.
The whole point of this thread was people choosing to have children that they cannot afford to provide the absolute basics for.

Gillian1980 · 19/08/2018 20:47

I’m mostly yanbu..... children are a huge responsibility and people need to be confident they can support their children. Obviously things change and family circumstances will sometimes get worse (redundancy, illness etc) but in terms of planning then yes people should be able to be in a position to meet the child’s needs.

I’m not talking about being wealthy, just making ends meet and providing for the child. However, I’m not bothered whether that is by wages or benefits - not for me to judge.

We waited a long, long time to have dd as we simply couldn’t afford it. It would have been impossible.
We are now waiting until we can afford to try for dc2.... we just couldn’t afford it yet. We would end up in dire straits. I wouldn’t do that to dd or to a future child intentionally.

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