Help me to understand antivaxxers

[Renegadeintherain]

A very intelligent close friend of mine has told me she does not vaccinate her children. She has done loads of research and believes her decision is well informed. Today she told me all about how diseases go through cycles and polio and smallpox were already on their way out when their respective vaccines were introduced. Hence, the vaccine was not responsible for their eradication. I don’t understand this. I’ve looked at the data and for the life of me I cannot understand how anyone could think that the sudden decrease in these illnesses could not be because of the vaccine. Is anyone here able to explain this logic to me please?

No. I'd be feigning interest with my close friend and explaining that you love empirical data

Wow! Intelligent enough to use google. I'd dump any person in my life who trotted out this crap.

My limited understanding of that argument is that they reclassified polio so that some of the forms were no longer “polio”. Anti-vaxxers use this to claim the vaccine did nothing

You can’t argue with stupid. And unless she’s trained in interpreting scientific data and especially immunology, she hasn’t done “research” - she’s done googling!

No logic.

It's conspiracy theories dressed up in (usually) middle class babble in a vague attempt to appear more woke and enlightened than us plebs.

If your friend started prattling on about how they've read lots and have concluded the earth is flat and 600 years old would you attempt to understand the 'science behind their ideas?

The problem with people doing “research” is that they mean using the internet. This isn’t doing reasearch and doesn’t allow interpretation of the quality of data used as most people aren’t trained to do this.

I’m just amazed at how someone who seems so intelligent in all other areas of life can genuinely fall for this. I wondered if I really was missing something...

She is a fucking idiot

I think this is an example of “not everything published in writing is true”. Anti vaxers always talk about research, but they usually mean well-written clap trap that appeals to confirmation bias, i.e. it sounds true because it confirms what you want to believe and it sounds like someone with half a brain wrote it.

It does not mean it has any scientific credit whatsoever, or any basis in fact at all.

Lack of critical thinking, lack of understanding about statistics and risk, credulous. Those are the top three, I think.

Sorry I don't understand them either.

A very intelligent close friend of mine has told me she does not vaccinate her children.

Not possible. She's a dimwit.

It’s the same argument brought out against climate change. I remember my father’s friends decades ago saying climate change wasn’t man made, it was due to natural cycles, like the Ice Age. Still today climate change deniers trot out the same thing, in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

It’s one of those things that’ll just be perennial.

YABVVU

Antivaxxers are loons. Complete and utter loons. Putting the rest of society and young babies at risk. Theres no point in even trying to understand them.

I’m not sure they are all loons, though. I know two very successful, otherwise sensible people who do not vaccinate due to fears of damaging their kids. I do think the way the risks are presented by the anti vax movement do scare otherwise very conscientious parents into making that choice. Actually getting them to look at some peer reviewed sources is probably a better strategy than calling them bonkers...

I’d hazard a guess that she isn’t as intelligent as you think she is.

Strange innit that just as another vax thread on here has the doubters in the asendant THIS little propagandistic gem pops up.

Snooze.

Your poor friend. Sadly misled.

You can inform your friend (and this is a true statement) that it wasn't the incidence rates that were declining due to improved sanitation. It was the DEATH rates. The incidence rates were still very high and only began to decline once immunization was introduced.

Case in point: I went to a pediatric nursing workshop given by a nurse practitioner. She's an older lady. She said that back in the day, practically every other bed in the pediatric unit was occupied by a child with meningitis. It was THAT common. Today, it's very rare - because we routinely vaccinate for meningococcus and Haemophilus influenzae type b, two bacteria that commonly cause meningitis.

first anti vaxxer who mentions smallpox - although clearly wilfully ignorant. bet she is vaccinated, they usually are even if they put their kids at higher risk.

she isnt intelligent. she cant assess risk or think critically. pity her kids.

OP does your friend know the history of small pox vaccination? Or polio vaccination? If she did she would come out with such shit.

I was a pro vaxxer and now have a child who was left with severe brain damage and many other health issues from the DTAP vaccine. I am on a website of 41,000 other UK parents of vaccine damaged children. It does happen. You can’t blame people for doing what they think is best to protect their children.

agnurse this is exactly the kind of thing I’m looking for. Thank you.

hottotrotsky yes I saw that thread, reading it made me want to post my own. Not sure what your point is?

emily7708 sorry to hear of your circumstances. I absolutely agree she’s doing what she thinks is best.

@Emily7708 I'm interested to know how you and these others have proved scientifically that the vaccine has caused this?

I don't doubt you believe what you're saying is the truth, but people find it hard to believe that if this was scientifically true then these vaccines would still be allowed to be administered

NameChange he changed overnight from a very healthy baby boy into basically a vegetable. There was no questioning it, and all his symptoms were there on the vaccine insert (which wasn’t supplied to me at the time). I have several close friends now with similar children after the DTAP.

Obviously I did a lot of research into this as we had to apply to the government for vaccine damage compensation. People would be as shocked as I was to hear what is put into vaccines nowadays - as with anything being churned out in bulk, they have cut corners massively and have added things that would have you rushing your child straight to A&E if they spilt any of the individual components over themselves. But somehow it’s ok if it’s injected into them? Our children are certainly being put at risk by the makers of vaccinations being allowed to scrimp on the quality.