Email from school that I probably wasn't supposed to see - f**king livid!

[FidgetyFingers]

I requested a copy of DS2's (secondary) school record when he left there a few months ago. He has quite severe SN, NHS paediatrician diagnosed with his assessments taking place at this school.

Enclosed in the paperwork was an email from his form tutor, his form tutor for 4 years, to the inclusion manager, stating that I had been on the phone to her as I was very unhappy about detentions 'again' for minor transgressions in the scheme of things and 'that I expected special treatment for my son due to his 'SN'.

DS has severe learning difficulties with several other co morbid difficulties and never should have been in mainstream school anyway but there was no choice as I couldn't get him an EHCP.

I am so fucking angry as this proves they never took his SN seriously at all which they proved in the way they treated him!

I also found a copy of an email from said inclusion manager to all his teachers outlining DS's behaviour plan and stating that if he failed to get enough points, he would be excluded.

Same woman sat across from me in a meeting with the Board of Governors insisting that I must have been mistaken when I said that she'd told me this on the phone.

I am absolutely disgusted that such people exist and are in authority of vulnerable children .

AIBU?

Kallax, yeah - I know, I know. And now I try not to think - 'was it because I was so stressed when pregnant? Was it because I should have had kids years ago?' etc etc etc. It just is what it is, all we can do is work with it and keep his confidence and happiness at the top of the pile.

With hindsight, I can see all the dyspraxia flags going back to when he was 1, (language delays, gross motor delays etc) but I knew nothing about dyspraxia back then, and professionals seemed unperturbed - I guess they thought like me that he would get there in his own time.

I have to say, I do feel really sorry for all the parents on this thread who are clearly struggling to get the support their children need. I can see the desperation some of you feel to find somebody, anybody to hold accountable. It must be shit. However, it does not make it right to try to distort the role of the teacher into something it isn't. I do what I can. Yes, I draw lines, but who doesn't? It is my right to protect myself professionally.

That is the crux of the matter @Pengggwn - children and parents (and teachers) are being let down by the system. It's the teacher that parents interact with the most and so it seems that they are bearing the brunt of the frustrations.

In the same way that a disgruntled customer shouts at the poor check out operator, who has no control over anything, because they can't yell at the CEO.

Misplaced frustration. I feel very sorry for all sides in these situations - the parents and child, the teachers and the other children in the class who are also being impacted. The system is just so broken, much like many public services, just about able to cover the bare minimum but not much else.

Arthuritis

Absolutely. And I would be frustrated too, I have no doubt, in the same situation.

I hope I would refrain from taking it out on the people working the hardest, but stress and disappointment do funny things, doesn't they?

*don't

I completely agree @Pengggwn. I'm not criticizing you in any way. I have worked very closely with teachers and have teachers in the family. Honestly I understand all that you deal with on a daily basis - the big and the small issues. I think it's so hard for parents that are faced with such difficulties to not see why, what is seemingly to them, such a small ask can't be met. Yet the reality is often different, particularly when an over worked teacher is being asked to just add something else into their day. It can just be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

It isn't right that the system is set up like this. That it boils down to an individual teacher almost having to do a favour or volunteer to help a child. This creates the problem of actual need not being officially recognised and the government able to continue cutting funding by declaring lack of need.

SEN provision has to be properly funded for the good of everyone.

It does worry me that the application process is so dependent on parental engagement though. I have been involved in 2 exclusions where the parents simply refused to accept that their children needed support and would not engage. This blocked any funding access and basically left school struggling to deal with very frequent low level disruption which compromised the education not only of the pupils concerned but of every other student in the class.

The SEN system is more opaque than the CEO/till person analogy.

Sometimes it appears that SENCO and teachers have not been honest about provision. Say they are doing things but in RL not doing. Deny when tackled. Steamroller concerns in meetings - repeatedly. When you can't get clear answers at the front line how on earth do you tackle the LA? They will just bounce it back to say school should deal with.

I know not all teachers are like this. I have met some excellent staff.
I have met some who play their part in the confusion however, perhaps to cover up shortcomings (is cash being used in the way it is said to be on paper?)

Believe me I have been an activist in my time and written to plenty of CEO's but this situation with schools and LA and central govt is so messy - you can't always get to the right person to tackle. Or know what the hell is going on - at school or beyond. If you dig, you become the enemy. A role I did not want.

That it boils down to an individual teacher almost having to do a favour or volunteer to help a child...

I agree that this is wholly inadequate. However, as the teacher I get very frustrated when the fact that it is a favour isn't recognised. I might well put myself on a sticky wicket by telling a parent I don't think they are being properly informed or supported by my superiors, but this can't be expected of me, and if I do it, I should be thanked for it.

I understand. Without actually seeing all of the details involved it is so hard to comment on the rights and wrongs of individual cases so I am trying, with broad examples, to put the other side.

I have had one experience of a similar situation. Not involving SEN but involving a teacher seemingly fudging or misrepresenting. After much digging and and personal attack we managed to find out that the HT involved was entirely to blame for a widescale cover up. The teacher concerned was being bullied in to not speaking up. Not saying that this is happening for you but just that sometimes you don't know the politics at play behind the scenes.

Schools financially are on a knife edge. HTs are all too aware of the scrutiny that they are under. Upset the LA and a way will be found to get rid of you (even from an academy). No longer is acting in the best interests of the child acceptable if in doing so you are going against the wishes of those that control the purse strings.

So cut costs at all costs is the message being shouted loud and clear. Increase class sizes, cut staffing even if it leaves no spare capacity at all, use cover supervisors rather than teachers, cut curriculum offers to leave no choice or variety, no opportunity to the less academic and don't whatever you do rock the boat.

It's the system that is wrong. Of course, sadly, there are some teachers who shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a school. Just as there are drs, nurses, police etc etc who are in the wrong jobs. But if the system was better funded and run properly I'm sure it wouldn't be this adversarial. It's the pressure from up above to cut costs that is making the situation so difficult.

Allington
Teacher: It is soooo unfair to me that I have so many pupils with SN and no support.

@Guienne: Why not refer them to the bodies put in place to help parents get the support their child needs?

Teacher: It's not my job. And my employer wouldn't like it. But it's soooo unfair to me etc etc

What actually being said is

Teacher:- I have to balance the needs of everyone in my class SEND or NT, its my job.

@Guienne: Why not refer them to the bodies put in place to help parents get the support their child needs?

Teacher: I don't work with these bodies and there is a system which should be adhered to within the school.

Having devoted the past 10+ years to negotiating DS (ASD) through the SEN system to GCSEs (results next week) I am so relieved to be out of it now. So, so much has happened, so many wringers and hoops to get through - I can't list it all.

The HT is the key to how well SN is managed in their school - and I've met a couple of c**nts in that role. Power-crazed loons.

The problem is that whilst there are laws and govt policy and processes and the 'right' way to do things - these are rarely followed by most that should - LEAs, Schools, etc. It's just a massive run around - we both have thankfully survived it.....just.

Arthuritis, schools can apply for EHCPs without parental support, and indeed they should do so to ensure that the child's needs are met. However, they can't appeal against bad local authority decisions.

Pengggwyn, on your own definition of "entitled" clearly you are misusing the term. You define it as "behaving as though you are entitled when you are not." I have never once claimed to be personally entitled to anything. What I have done, as Kallax says, is to point out that children have a statutory entitlement which schools and their employees have to meet.

As a matter of interest, do you have year group or form tutor responsibilities? If a parent of a child for whom you are responsible wants to talk to you about how their SEN manifest in your class, what you are doing to support them, and how they could access further support, do you really refuse to discuss it, even if they are clearly massively worried and distressed about it, and insist they make an appointment with the SENCo?

Guienne

I'm sorry but you really are boring me now. Please stop telling me my job. I know my professional and pastoral responsibilities, thanks. You can insist on the face of objections that you know better than I do what my job is, but I think that is extremely rude.

Pengggwyn, I'm sure that if you took a parent aside and told them you thought they were being wrongly advised by your colleagues and that they should get a second opinion the majority would certainly thank you for it. Indeed, I've known of teachers who have done precisely that on occasions and the parents were extremely grateful.

What I find frustrating is that there are all too many teachers - not including you - who claim not to have time to address SN properly or to advise parents, who nevertheless find time to give the wrong advice, particularly when that advice is directed at putting parents off getting the support their children need. When they not only do that but also find the time to write arsey emails such as the ones quoted by OP, or even to waste social services' time by making groundless FII allegations, it's difficult to sympathise. It's also difficult to believe that they're in the same profession as the thousands of teachers who really do go the extra mile and do a wonderful job.

Guienne
You really are a bit of a stuck record on this. As many posters have tried to explain to you, it is not within the remit of the class teacher role to advise parents to make suggestions to parents about websites, charities etc who may give conflicting advice about their child's needs. In fact it would be quite wrong of a class teacher to do so and could potentially cause confusion. Were I, or any other class teacher to do so they would be potentially in conflict with senior leadership and subject to disciplinary procedures. Surely this isn't too difficult to understand?
My job:
-Provide a differentiated programme of study that enables ALL the children in my class to make AT LEAST satisfactory progress (from whichever starting point)

• Attend six weekly progress meetings for SEN children to discuss approaches, interventions, resources etc
• Submit to SEN scrutinies and learning walks that ensure that the provision being translated into practice in my class
• Discuss and plan with the other professionals in my class to ensure good quality provision
• Be available to parents to discuss issues, provision, how the child might be feeling on any particular day and to pass this information on
• Contribute to reports, complete checklists etc
• Liase with SALT, SPLD teachers in school.

I am not party to decisions on applying for EHCP's or the progression of applications. This is done centrally by the HT and SENCO. I would always refer parents to our HT or SENCO for this.

Some of the responses on here remind me of a few staff in a previous job. The organization ran - among other projects - a paediatric HIV clinic (not in the UK).

Sometimes a doctor needed someone to hold a child while they took a blood sample. A few of the qualified nurses refused because they were overqualified and it wasn't in their JD. But the admin staff couldn't do it either, because admin staff weren't allowed to do clinical work. It used to drive the doctors wild

Over time they managed to weed out the jobsworths and find people who could see the bigger picture.

Having devoted the past 10+ years to negotiating DS (ASD) through the SEN system to GCSEs (results next week) I am so relieved to be out of it now. So, so much has happened, so many wringers and hoops to get through - I can't list it all.

Best of luck for next week!!

I'm sure that if you took a parent aside and told them you thought they were being wrongly advised by your colleagues and that they should get a second opinion the majority would certainly thank you for it.
Why would any class teacher undermine their colleagues in this way? Apart from being hugely unprofessional it's probably gross misconduct. You are insane.

Discussing your accusation of entitlement is not telling you your job, Pengggwyn, it's simply a reasonable response to someone who chooses to make unfounded accusations. It's also difficult to understand how asking you questions amounts to telling you anything, and it's reasonable when you've come on here using your employment experience to support your posts. It is, shall we say, unhelpful that one of your main responses to posters who hold views differing from yours is to start bringing out unfounded accusations of being unreasonable, rude, entitled, having a 'reputation', etc etc.

As I say, I know that there are many teachers who are very willing and able to do what the Code of Practice tells them to do in terms of engaging with parents, and who do a fantastic job in difficult circumstances. I'm well aware that the main blame lies with the government for failing to fund education properly. What I find frustrating is that there are ways of redressing the balance (and helping schools) which can be accessed by helping parents to enforce the law, but that some schools and teachers won't do anything to help with that process. I'm not sure that I would want to work in a school where the teachers acknowledge that they are unable to support children with SN properly with the resources available but which prevents those teachers from doing anything to help parents improve those resources.

Guienne

Look, the point isn't whether you are sure. It is whether I am. And I am not, as I've said several times. So the fundamental issue here is your insistence on my doing something that I am absolutely sure isn't part of my remit, just because you happen think it is. You are not a teacher. I know my job description better than you.

Done now.

JimmyGrimble, the difficulty is that the Code of Practice makes it very clear that it is primarily the job of the form tutor or class teacher to engage with parents on issues concerning SN and provision for their children. The function of the SENCO is to support them in that, not supplant them. It also specifically refers to the need to refer parents to the Independent Advice and Support Service, whether funded by LAs or charities, and indeed the government puts in significant funding to such services itself. How could it possibly be professionally improper to tell a parent that such services are available? It's like saying it would undermine the other staff if a teacher suggested taking a child to an optician or getting a referral for speech and language therapy. Any school that tried to discipline a teacher for that would soon find itself in a fight with the relevant union, as well as being potentially on the wrong end of a constructive dismissal or indeed a disability discrimination claim, and I don't think Ofsted would be too impressed, either.

I don't suggest that it is the class teacher's job to apply for an EHCP, but if the SENCo is failing to do so when necessary it is perfectly proper to suggest that the parent might like to get independent advice. That isn't undermining the SENCo, and a SENCo who is doing their job properly should have no reason to fear parents accessing separate advice. Where, as has happened on this thread, teachers are saying that they do not have the resources in their school to enable them to support the children in their class with SN, then self-evidently something is going wrong, because the law prescribes that that is precisely the situation where an EHC needs assessment application should be instituted. If a SENCo is failing to do their job properly and children are being failed as a result, then frankly no teacher should be closing their eyes to it.

The frustrating thing is that so many excellent teachers have no problem in working with parents to get the right support for their pupils, yet there are some teachers who complain about how difficult it is to have to deal with children with SN and their parents and who nevertheless firmly state that it's impossible for them to do anything to remedy that situation. The fact that it's the ones who complain who are also the ones who perceive it as impossible to help doesn't seem to be in any way coincidental.

Guienne

The fact that it's the ones who complain who are also the ones who perceive it as impossible to help doesn't seem to be in any way coincidental.

Its no coincidence that "these teachers" are the ones that disagree with you

Guienne
The reality is that Class Teachers will have daily contact with parents, report on progress, contribute to identification of SN, devise programmes of study, liase with other professionals etc etc. We do not apply for the EHCP but only contribute to it. We refer on for advice. I am sorry if you think this is not good enough, I appreciate how frustrating this must be for you but that is the reality. I am sorry that you don't think that teacher's are doing a good enough job for our pupils with SN. I am sorry that you have obviously butted up against beaurocracy but there it is. We are all (mostly) trying to do our best for everyone. And as I have mentioned previously I speak as the parent of a child with dyspraxia.

teachers - not teacher's sorry for the misuse of the apostrophe there before anyone picks up on it.