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MIL asking partner to be executor of will but just expecting him to accept it

78 replies

Charlotte716 · 15/08/2018 19:48

So my MIL has asked my partner to sign some papers to say he will be in charge of what happens on her passing.

No asking or discussing just sign this. He is one of three but probably the most responsibile.

So she will have not assets, no house savings but she does have debts, does anyone know what will happen to those and if he will be responsible for them?

I’m really annoyed at he expectation, I understand it’s a morbid subject but there is no discussion at all and the relationship is already strained.

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Aquamarine1029 · 15/08/2018 19:52

Your partner needs to speak to a solicitor to be properly informed. He needs to go into this with his eyes wide open.

garethsouthgatesmrs · 15/08/2018 19:54

i would get legal advice to check what happens about the debts. I think it's fairly normal to have your children as executors though.

Charlotte716 · 15/08/2018 19:56

Thank you, yes and of course we would want to do this in principal but there is more to it then signing page 5 of the whole document. She mentioned just sending that in the post for him to sign and return but surely he has to see it all? Just concerned about being left with debts.

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QueenAravisOfArchenland · 15/08/2018 19:57

Well it's not exactly unusual for children to be the executors of their parents' will, nor is it unusual for executors not to be specifically asked beforehand. So unless there's backstory here as to why this request is unreasonable, I don't think it's as outrageous as you're presenting it.

I could be wrong, and no doubt someone will correct me if I am, but while your MIL's debts might still need to be satisfied from her estate, if they exceed the value of her estate I don't think they are passed to her heirs.

Unescorted · 15/08/2018 19:59

Gov. Uk has some useful info

www.gov.uk/wills-probate-inheritance

NewYearNewMe18 · 15/08/2018 20:01

The not 'responsible' for her debts, he is one of three responsible for winding up her estate. He will not be financially responsible. Debts do not pass to NOK.

Charlotte716 · 15/08/2018 20:02

Thank you. Yes there is quite a substantial back storey and of course we would expect and want to support as regardless of the storey it’s still his mum. I suppose it’s more the presenting of it and he needs to sign to agree so it’s something more formal then it being without his knowledge.

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Charlotte716 · 15/08/2018 20:02

Thank you for the link

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Namechangeforthiscancershit · 15/08/2018 20:05

Executors don’t have to sign anything. They are just appointed, though can renounce.

Could this be a trust for a life policy? Or an LPA?

He won’t be personally responsible for debts so long as he pays anything he is able to out of the estate and follows the (very strict) procedure for an insolvent estate.

Racecardriver · 15/08/2018 20:06

He won't be saddled with her debts. The debts belong to the estate. He will basically just have to go to the bank to get her accounts closed, pay whatever is left to creditors, tell her creditors that she is debt and the estate is bankrupt etc.

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 15/08/2018 20:08

Also, if the estate is insolvent, he doesn’t have to act as executor and can hand over to a creditor.

NewYearNewMe18 · 15/08/2018 20:08

Was I supposed to tell/ask my children they are out executors? I didn't bother. I did text one to tell him he would be legal guardian of the youngest for the next 4 months if we should pop our clogs.

Only a fool would pay a solicitor to do an executors job - there has recently been a big scandal with the banks, using their own solicitors and taking a hefty percentage of the estate.

www.theguardian.com/money/2009/apr/18/probate-writing-a-will
Just because you're dead does not stop banks and lawyers making a fortune from you. Each year Britain's high street banks and solicitors pick up a massive £1.25bn in fees for sorting out wills. Between them, they have 88% of the market for dealing with that last testament.
But according to management consultant­ Adam Walker, 49, around half of that £1.25bn is "blatant overcharging".
"It's a £600m a year rip-off, where banks and solicitors are charging large fortunes to sort out small estates. It's worse because they prey on grief-stricken families who are not in a mood to argue, or shop around," he says.
And Walker should know. His experience­ with a London law firm last year, when his father died, caused him so much anguish that he decided on a solution – he has set up what he says is the UK's first "probate broker" – probate­ is the legal term for sorting out a will (see What is probate, below). His brokerage aims to find the best deal for families who need to arrange processing of a will.
Advertisement

Walker's father died last May leaving all his £550,000 estate to his widow. There were no other bequests or inheritance tax to pay. The estate consisted­ of the £300,000 family home, a £200,000 holding in Alliance, an investment trust, and four savings accounts worth £50,000.
Adam and his brother, who were both named executors in the father's will, thought the cost of sorting this out would be "no more than a few thousand, at worst".
But there was a third executor in the will – a firm of London solicitors. And they could charge "professional fees".
"I won't name them – I've since ­discovered they are no better, or worse, than any other. But I thought it essential to know, upfront, what their fees would be – after all, whatever they charged would come out of the money left to my mother," he says.
It took him a lot of pressure to gain information. "The firm refused to give a quote, basically using the 'how long is a piece of string?' line. But eventually the lawyer said she would charge 1.5% of the estate, plus £325 an hour, plus £20 a letter, plus disbursements such as court fees plus VAT – the likely total would be £25,850. We were shocked – it was more than twice as much as they paid for their house, and this was a very simple estate," he says
He suggested to the firm of solicitors that the family do the basic work (he'd bought a do-it-yourself probate book for £15) and get the lawyers to check it as a way of costcutting.
That suggestion fell on deaf ears.
Advertisement

Walker then asked if he could look for alternatives. "The lawyer said that as the firm had been appointed, it had to act for us. In any case, it claimed a bank would have been even costlier. But I discovered anyone – solicitor or otherwise - can renounce an executor appointment. I also found an online probate firm which quoted £6,300 – some 75% less."
Walker then moved from "angry to apoplectic". He told the lawyer the job was hers at £6,300 and if she did not like it, she should resign – if she refused, he would be a "hostile client". "I threatened to ask the Law Society for an independent assessment of the fees." She then resigned as executor.
"Lawyers and banks make you feel guilty even if you have the strength to challenge them after a death in the family," Walker says. "The problem is, so many lawyers and banks offer will-writing as a loss leader and put themselves in as executors so they can make a fortune from the probate process after the death when the family is vulnerable."
Walker did the probate work on a DIY basis – you don't legally need a lawyer. "It wasn't that easy, but my secretary helped with the paperwork. It took her 25 hours, five less than the lawyer quoted, and I do not pay her £325 an hour. The original charge was a big try-on."
His solution was, with £2m backing from a private investor, setting up Final Duties – which he says is the first ever "probate broker". He claims he can typically halve solicitor fees and cut bank costs back by 75%.
"You come to us and we give you a quote. All our work is via solicitors but, because we know the market, you don't overpay. If you accept, you pay us £295 – and we use our experience to help get rid of unwanted executors. We've done nearly 100 so far – I'm surprised no one has done this before."
Final Duties's record includes:
• A South Wales man, who left £1m in a bank account and nothing else, would have been charged £40,000 plus VAT by Royal Bank of Scotland. Final Duties ensured the bank resigned and found a lawyer for £3,200.
• A Devon man appointed Midland Bank (now HSBC) as his executor when he married in 1954. He left £300,000 – the bank wanted £12,000. Walker did it for £2,800 after securing the bank's resignation as an auditor.
• A London man was quoted £19,000 by a bank to administer his father's estate. The bank refused to reduce the fee even when the son offered to do some work. Final Duties quoted £7,245.
"Lawyers lost out when they lost the conveyancing monopoly. But here the margins are much fatter. It's time to change," Walker adds

Hadalifeonce · 15/08/2018 20:11

As an executor, he won't have to sign anything, he will just be named in her will. I would be very careful if she is asking him to sign anything, without getting legal advice first. For all you know, he may be signing to take over responsibility for her debts!

Clairetree1 · 15/08/2018 20:11

if he signed the will, no I don't think you are supposed to read it, or even see it, just witness that the person who's will it is tells you they have written it of their own free choice

Charlotte716 · 15/08/2018 20:12

Thanks guys, i’ll Find out exactly what it is he is signing as might be more of an executor given he does have to sign what she said was the will for the solicitor. I suppose I just panicked on the debts and he was a bit miffed it’s a call out of the blue to sign something she didn’t explain but that ‘she needs’ done. Appreciate the help.

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Namechangeforthiscancershit · 15/08/2018 20:12

Only a fool would pay a solicitor to do an executors job - there has recently been a big scandal with the banks, using their own solicitors and taking a hefty percentage of the estate

I don’t think anyone on this thread has have they?
There are good reasons to use a solicitor as an executor, though few and far between, and the Law Society guidance is very clear about renouncing if the family ask. The problem with banks is that they don’t currently have the same guidelines.

FadedRed · 15/08/2018 20:12

What namechange said. You don't sign anything if named as Executor. And, when the time comes, you can choose not to do it, handing it over to the other executors or a solicitor.
I would be very wary about 'signing ' any documents.

Namechangeforthiscancershit · 15/08/2018 20:13

Charlotte feel free to PM me when the documents turn up and I can tell you what it all means. It sounds like there is something over and above normal executorship.

Charlotte716 · 15/08/2018 20:15

Hadalifeonce yes this is the issue how it was worded. I will send you the page I need signing from the document please sign and return. Well what does that mean?!! I would not just sign a page without witnesses or advice so he will have to ask her to explain and perhaps seek his own advice. It must be more than executor. With my own parents they explain in their will about trusts etc and thinking about it me and my brother are executors but we have never had to sign anything.

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Charlotte716 · 15/08/2018 20:16

Namechangeforthiscancershit Oh thank you so much! Really appreciate that. We love 200 miles away so this appears it will be done via the post to receive the docs so I will ask that he asks for the full info.

It’s a morbid subject but I just want to make sure we have clarity.

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Namechangeforthiscancershit · 15/08/2018 20:17

Of course you do. It doesn’t read quite right to me.

It’s not a problem at all.

Hadalifeonce · 15/08/2018 20:17

Agree, he should be very wary signing blind.

FadedRed · 15/08/2018 20:18

Cross post.
Are you saying he is being asked to sign the Will as a witness?

Makesmilingyourbesthobby · 15/08/2018 20:20

With a will when it is written up the executors are appointed by the person making a will nothing needs signing by executors or anyone set to inherit only ones that need signing are the person themselves & witnesses to the her signing it, after the passing of the person the executors can say they don't want to take up the position

Charlotte716 · 15/08/2018 20:23

Sorry no, not as a witness. Annoyingly he didn’t really ask much other than to say he doesn’t want one page can he look at what it is. She has worded it as giving him the responsibility to make arrangements/sort things on behalf of her children so that sounds like executor in principle. But to finalise her will she needs him to agree and sign. That’s as much as the conversation goes and then trying to make arrangements to get the document to us. So he has told me and I have said you need to take some advice and understand what it is and your responsibilities upon the event to ensure we are clear before signing

Not that we need to but we know there are not assets other then personally possessions.

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