Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Barrister: you look too well. Be more dowdy. Men's clothes are not an issue, why women's?

93 replies

Flappypants · 14/08/2018 22:51

Hi

I had to attend court today because my narc STBXH (the groping speeder) is asserting I am a danger to the children and mentally unstable and so need an assessment. Mixed results for me but that's not the reason for this post. I was attending court. I wore a black below the knee shift dress with red shoes and a red, gold and black silk scarf. Dress: second hand Primark in an eBay bundle. Shoes by Schuh £6, eBay. Scarf £3.99, Oxfam. Total less than £15. I felt I looked smart, appropriate and respectful.

My barrister said to me "I must say you look a bit too, erm, well". I asked what he meant, thinking he meant I didn't look mad or unstable but he clarified that if it were a financial hearing I should look more dowdy and needy.

I kind of get what he was trying to say but a man would not be pulled up on his attire. Why a woman? I said that I had been brought up to be respectful and to dress appropriately to the situations I find myself in. He backed off a little saying that I must dress in a way that makes me feel comfortable and confident. We made light of it and I take on board the feedback but this isn't an issue for men, surely?

AIBU to think the world needs to sort its sh*t out?

OP posts:
Uncreative · 14/08/2018 23:00

YANBU

Ivorbig1 · 14/08/2018 23:02

It actually makes me quite cross on your behalf. A women’s appearance shouldn’t matter and yet, we all judge on appearances. Years and years ago I was in court and told not to wear makeup or clothes that would give the wrong impression. I was 17. Still makes me angry and is probably why I emphasize with you.

ElspethTascioni · 14/08/2018 23:06

I wouldn’t wear red shoes to court. Barristers are told when we train to dress a certain way, and I think for any of us, red shoes would just feel so wrong. I would take bets, that he was struggling with the red shoes.

ElspethTascioni · 14/08/2018 23:07

And what men wear at court IS an issue - they get judge for their appearance too, all the time.

SoupDragon · 14/08/2018 23:10

but a man would not be pulled up on his attire

Male attire is very different though. A suit is fairly dull really.

I suspect if a man turned up in, say, red shoes and a cravat there would be similar comments.

There’s far more variation in female attire.

Original poster
Flappypants · 14/08/2018 23:11

What's the struggle with the red shoes? I don't follow. Sorry if I'm being thick and I absolutely defer to superior insider knowledge!

OP posts:
ShirleyPhallus · 14/08/2018 23:11

It isn’t an issue for men because they wouldn’t wear red heels to court.

A man would be told to smarten up from tracksuit trousers.

SoupDragon · 14/08/2018 23:11

Coloured shoes in general are quite attention grabbing I think.

Original poster
Flappypants · 14/08/2018 23:13

I'm not a barrister btw...I'm the one being dragged through court by a vile and abusive bastard. Barroster didn't see the shoes at first as I was sitting at a desk.

OP posts:
OhTheRoses · 14/08/2018 23:13

It sounds sensible to me. Court is a place were the persona needs to fade a little.

mikado1 · 14/08/2018 23:14

I agree with the very cool named, Elspeth ! Love, Alicia.

ElspethTascioni · 14/08/2018 23:14

Red shoes just seem wildly inappropriate- court etiquette says we have to dress in a dark grey/black/navy suit (3 piece for men or jacket done up) and shoes should be to match, so black or navy really. Red shoes just do not fit into that dress code - so for me, even seeing them on a client (rather than another barrister) would jar a little. I wouldn’t say anything though! Court is sober - red shoes are not.

I wouldn’t worry about it though!

Original poster
Flappypants · 14/08/2018 23:14

I certainly wasn't going for attention 😁 last thought going through my head in the circs. Do I sense a flaming coming for the red shoes?

OP posts:
Insertquirkyname · 14/08/2018 23:15

At the end of the day you are paying him to portray you in a way that gives you the financial/ custody outcome you want to achieve.
Every single word he uses is specifically chosen to directly and indirectly influence the judge.
I bet you did look great, no one is going to face a twat of an ex looking deliberately shit! However, he was just steering you for a less bold look- it screamed confidence when he wanted to portray calm capability.
In my financial hearing, my barrister told me to desperately look out the window when my ex was being cross examined so it didn’t seem like I was enjoying watching him squirm.
Don’t take offence, everything is just crafted to steer the result; words, clothes, actions and mannerisms.
Good luck with the process.

minipie · 14/08/2018 23:16

Men appearing in court are absolutely advised on what to wear.

ElspethTascioni · 14/08/2018 23:16

Elspeth would wear red shoes Mikado !!

Original poster
Flappypants · 14/08/2018 23:18

Fair enough Quirky. Actually I did feel confident in the face of utter utter lies, control and deceit on his part. I felt buoyed up instead of cowed.

Dowdy it is then.

OP posts:
ElspethTascioni · 14/08/2018 23:20

No one said you had to be dowdy. It’s isnt red shoes or dowdy...

Original poster
Flappypants · 14/08/2018 23:20

Barrister said dowdy 😂

OP posts:
whattimeislove · 14/08/2018 23:24

I think quirky has summed it up well. It still grates though as you said.

I went to magistrates court once and a defendant appeared in shorts and t-shirt. The magistrate told him that his case would not be heard until he dressed appropriately & sent him away (he returned within the hour wearing trousers & shirt).

It's all a bit of a game there, lots of unwritten rules, etiquette, etc. My advice is to follow the legal advice, they're used to playing the game.

I love the sound of your shoes though Smile

CanIBuffalo · 14/08/2018 23:25

A friend told me that her usually dressed to the nines XH turned up looking like a tramp when he pleaded poverty in court. Presumably he'd been advised to do so.

ElspethTascioni · 14/08/2018 23:25

He so he did. Arse. I got fixated on the red shoes...be smart, but remember, you are there as a mum, not for work. Lose the red shoes because you don’t want to draw attention in an environment when everyone wears dark colours and you’re trying to convince the judge what your ex says is lies - it might suggest a lack of judgment. But apart from that, be comfortable and be yourself. Good luck.

BoneyBackJefferson · 14/08/2018 23:26

but a man would not be pulled up on his attire

Yes they would be, standard attire for men would be black shoes, trousers, shirt and tie.

I have known barristers to complain when a full suit hasn't been worn.

upsideup · 14/08/2018 23:26

What makes you think mens clothing wouldnt be an issue? It would be.
It probably does happen to be less of an issue most of the time because most men are less adventuous in their clothing choices than women.

CanIBuffalo · 14/08/2018 23:26

YY what it's like a perfomance/drama