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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To ask for help in dealing with toxic(?) DM?

79 replies

NicknameChangeroo · 14/08/2018 17:56

Name changed as these details will be identifying and I don’t want them linked to my account...

My DM cares for my DD whilst I am at work and has done for the past 10 years and is therefore looking after her during the summer holidays. So as not to dripfeed, DM has a history of anxiety and depression, currently medicated following a round of CBT.

DM has been making comments to DD which I consider to be manipulative. For example, when DD said she didn’t want to go food shopping with DM and that she wanted to stay at home (she’s old enough so it’s fine), DM said ‘well, I guess I’ll go on my own then, I’ll just struggle’.

Or similar with walking the dogs, DD doesn’t want to go, DM replies, “well, it’s only me who does it anyway, it’s so lonely walking on your own’.”

DD is 13 and I do not want her subjected to these comments. She texts me whilst I am at work to tell me what is happening but I don’t know how to address it. I have raised some of these points with DM before and she has denied them and said that DD is lying. DD has recorded one of the exchanging as proof before as she is so frustrated that DM denies it all.

DM does this with me and my brother too, though he is still living at home and often takes the brunt of it but asks me for advice.

Has anyone got any experience with this? How can I address it with her without upsetting her and can I give DB23 any advice? He’s currently at home saving for a deposit and I know it affects him a lot.

OP posts:

Tessliketrees · 14/08/2018 23:29

That should say "My DM"

CaptainCucumber · 14/08/2018 23:34

Emotional needs -an adults desire for company (I’ll be sat on my own if you go out) should not be filled by a teenage girl who wants a life of her own. Why doesn’t grandma have other friends/people to see? Why doesn’t she have a full and fulfilling life? If I was watching a 13 year old girl I’d breath a sigh of relief every time she went out and put the kettle on

The grandma shouldn’t be pressuring the child to stay in with her an keep her company/stop her from being lonely. It’s not her job to do so, though I agree she should be strongly encouraged to go on dog walks etc that would be nice for grandma. But it sounds like grandma is trying to make DD feel responsible for her happiness, I.e stay at home with her instead of being out with her friends because grandmas lonely. It’s not fair

ShadowCatt · 14/08/2018 23:34

@Tessliketrees not really,because it's not up to the child to support the adult regardless of ailment.

Plus the emotional side can be a lot worse and more overwhelming than "I'm doing x,y,z chores for a while because grandma can't ".
Being responsible for someone's emotional well being is a massive burden to carry,even more so for a 13 yo kid.

arethereanyleftatall · 14/08/2018 23:35

To a cynical outsider, it reads a little like you have used your mother as free childcare for ten years despite her having some mh issues.
Now you only need her to pop in and check on your dd a few times a day, and she's not accommodating that happily.

In your situation, I'd be being extremely nice to my Dm as a show of my appreciation for the past many years, and discussing with my dd that if grandma would like some company on a dog walk, the nice thing to do would be to give it.

ShadowCatt · 14/08/2018 23:39

Also the whole lying to the point where DD nearly got grounded isn't normal or acceptable.
The grandmother can be helpful and also toxic but I sincerely doubt these are the first signs.

DSHathawayGivesMeFannyGallops · 14/08/2018 23:48

I think I get what you're saying, OP. It's the "I'm so lonely.... I'll just struggle" responses, instead of "actually, i'm planning quite a big shop, I'd really appreciate you lending a hand" or "ok but I'd love to do something together soon". Unless this was a one off, with her making a point, your DM gives responses designed to pressure and guilt.

It comes a cycle because people then avoid people who act like martyrs. It certainly didn't work for my DGM.

Tessliketrees · 14/08/2018 23:54

@ShadowCatt

"it's not up to the child to support the adult regardless of ailment"

She's 13. At what age is a child a functioning member of a family? Or do we just give them a free ride until they are 18 then turn them out the door and act all shocked when they turn out to be entitled?

GM wanting her to go shopping and walk the dog with her isn't abuse or making her "fulfill emotional needs".

I hate all the pyschobabble bollocks on here.

StatisticallyChallenged · 14/08/2018 23:57

I think I get where you are coming from OP. It sounds like your mum does a good line in martyting and emotional blackmail which, at 13, your DD shouldn't have to be dealing with. You tried to cut down on the need for doing childcare but she resisted. You know she would strop if DD stayed at home during the holidays. I'd bet my bottom dollar she tells all and sundry how much she does for you, whilst simultaneously pushing you to continue.

She has gone so far as to get your DD in to trouble for lying so that she can keep you dancing to her tune. That's not the behaviours of a normal loving grandma

Tessliketrees · 14/08/2018 23:57

"Also the whole lying to the point where DD nearly got grounded isn't normal or acceptable"

Yeah but how has that come about? That in itself is utterly bizarre from all angles and doesn't make anybody look good.

I can't even imagine how those conversations would have come about.

DSHathawayGivesMeFannyGallops · 15/08/2018 00:16

@StatisticallyChallenged You've got it bang on. I think we've had similar experiences with martyr relatives. The problem is their chosen reaction to situations like this, not the reason why they reacted. Then the lies!

ShadowCatt · 15/08/2018 00:24

@Tessliketrees because while walking the dog or going shopping can be normal (I still have an issue with how it was phrased) asking a child to not stay out and play for too long because you're lonely isn't.

All I'm saying is it's not the kid's fault and she's bearing the brunt of it. She's got the most to lose emotionally and socially. The GM gets her company, the mum gets her free childcare (for 10 years and going) and the kid gets guilt trips and lies. How is that fair? Especially since this situation was caused by the adults in her life.

violets17 · 15/08/2018 00:42

My DM is like this and I did need to use her for childcare too. The way I dealt with it was to agree with the DCs that indeed she could be annoying and the burning martyr routine was irritating but she loves them despite her issues and nobody's perfect.

I assume she loves and is kind to your DD? Most people are weird if we know them well enough. Just validate your DD privately, your DM is probably doing her best even if it's not amazing.

Tessliketrees · 15/08/2018 00:43

@ShadowCatt

I am a bit skeptical about the playing out thing to be honest so I discounted it in my head. Your second paragraph is a good point well made. The 13 year old is suffering from both sides.

HollyWoods8224 · 15/08/2018 00:57

Is there a chance your DM is bored and frustrated with the limitations of her issues?
If so perhaps having your DD there is the highlight of her weeks and she just cant stop herself from constantly wanting to do something. (And I’m sure your DD gets tired of running granny daycare, I know I did with my MIL )

Could you sit with your DD and DM to plan a couple of outings that she can do with DM, going to the pools once a week etc, give a bit more structure to the week so there is a loose plan of what each will be doing, including alone time.
Maybe something where DM could meet other people which takes the pressure off DD?
Suggest that DD could have a friend over (if DM was ok with that) ?

haribosmarties · 15/08/2018 01:01

I think it is toxic behaviour. My grandmother was similar and it had a very bad effect on me. I have no contact with her now and neither does my mother. It may seem like a petty turn of phrase to people but when this type of thing is being done all the time it is incredibly draining. And especially with a young child the emotional manipulation can really effect them. Its controlling and stifling. Your DM should not be speaking to your daughter like this.

StatisticallyChallenged · 15/08/2018 07:12

Sounds like it DSHathaway. My mother was like this with me growing up, constantly putting emotional pressure on for me to be at home in my teens because she was all alone, so lonely, depressed by being on her own, couldn't cope with shopping herself, bla bla bla. It's not healthy for a teen - needless to say me applying for uni anywhere except home city caused epic guilt trips.

She's not been allowed to to it with my DC (we're now NC) but I've seen the behaviour op describes play out almost exactly with a relative's kids. Mother insists to relative that she wants to look after her kids, adores the kids, it's no imposition, please i want to look after them, puts pressure on when she doesn't see them. Gets it to the stage where relative relies on her for childcare to work. But, to me and others, she then bitches incessantly about being taken advantage of, how the kids are ungrateful little shits and so on. She's also bloody horrible to the kids when alone with them, but lies about it.

She was rarely left with my DC even before we went NC as I know how she acts.

OP's mum sounds like she's cut from the same cloth.

CaptainCucumber · 15/08/2018 17:46

Sounds awful statistically challenged

CaptainCucumber · 15/08/2018 17:49

Tessliketrees - not sure how it’s psychobabble bollucks?

Glumglowworm · 15/08/2018 18:02

I wouldn’t say it’s toxic. A bit manipulative yes but not toxic!

Remember this is a woman with health problems who has been giving you free childcare for ten bloody years, saving you thousands of pounds!

She’s asking for things that are very reasonable to expect from a 13 year old. Your DD is being a bit of a brat. As are you.

You can put up with the limitations of the free childcare you’ve enjoyed for the last decade. Or you can find alternative arrangements and pay for the privilege. Or you can leave your teenager home alone.

EggysMom · 15/08/2018 18:16

I cannot deal with the constant guilt-tripping of DD and of me when I see her

Switch off to it. Develop a thick skin, and simply ignore it. If she directly asks for help with something, then a polite answer can be given; but such martyr-like remarks are not worthy of a response.

I reached the point where I didn't even have to hear the martyr-like remarks, I could imagine them, unsaid at the end of my DM's sentences. It really bothered me until I decided that it was her problem and not mine. So now I ignore them.

StatisticallyChallenged · 15/08/2018 21:23

I think the problem with ignoring is DD - we're big enough and ugly enough to apply a "here she goes again" filter to the martyrdom but it's a lot to ask of a kid.

heartsease68 · 15/08/2018 22:16

I find it really astounding that anyone is prepared to let their child be in this environment for more than an hour or two a week.

Fluffyears · 16/08/2018 09:12

I think people are missing the point. Yes grandma can ask for help but should not use guilt as a tactic to get her own way. Emotional manipulation is awful. Also telling OP that her daughter was ‘constantly lying’ when she wasn’t and letting an innocent girl get punished is absolutely abhorrent in my book. Have you told her that you know dad wasn’t lying and she was as you heard it all?

Bluelady · 16/08/2018 09:25

Poor bloody woman, it's not her behaviour that's toxic.

MarthasGinYard · 16/08/2018 09:46

Quite

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