To suggest everyone's DC train as roofers, builders and other "trades"?

[PolkerrisBeach]

Because I've spent about a month trying to get people to do work in the house and NOBODY'S INTERESTED. Nobody wants to come and quote for smaller jobs like putting four skylights in an extension ceiling, taking down a wall between two rooms and plastering.

They're all too busy doing 50k extensions and loft conversions.

So if anyone has a child considering their future, send them to learn to be an electrician / builder / roofer / carpenter - they are all so busy that they're turning work away.

@SomedaySometime

I have some of them - not a First, though.

You're right, it takes more than qualifications but neither DH nor I could have our careers (literally) without graduating and then having post grad qualifications in our fields.

A degree is another step along the road to success.

Mine were all encouraged away from apprenticeships at least till age 18. They have all been encouraged to go to university where possible or at least to get A Level quals.

Unfortunately the majority of people I know that have spent their lives working these types of jobs are struggling by their early/mid fifties and then can't get any other work. All that bending/lifting years on end takes it toll physically and in my experience it's very hard for a man in his fifties (can't comment on women as I don't know any female trades people) to go into something new.

We're short in my area too, it's almost impossible to get anyone decent in

Well thank goodness most parents aren't as controlling as you Didntwanttochangemyname ! Unfortunately as a teacher, I have seen this from both sides: parents who force their children into university, and parents who refuse to allow their children to go to university.

University was definitely right for me. I enjoyed my degree and masters, and generally love being a teacher. I'm not practical at all and I would have hated learning a trade.

My 16 year old sister wants to become a car mechanic. She's currently studying sciences at school, with a plan to do her country's version of a degree-level apprenticeship in car mechanics. She would probably do fine in a science degree, but I'm sure she'll enjoy an apprenticeship much more and it lets her fill her passion for cars!

Neither of mine wanted to go to uni despite
both having 9 GCSE passes. One's an engineer, having learnt on the job. The others a property maintenance man, roofing, tiling, plumbing, kitchens and bathroom fitting. Both enjoy their jobs and earn good money. People with daft degrees (media studies, and many others) end up working in MacDonalds

don't want my dc to go into the trades. We have family who have worked as joiners, plasterers etc and it’s OK when you’re young but as you get older it’s crippling work. The pay is not amazing either

Being a plumber or plasterer is the starting point. Ds is going to be learning a trade but is already working and saving to buy his first place with his dsis which he is planning on renovating and selling on. He has already booked himself on to a weeks diy course in his half term.

What a shame you're not in the SE OP! That's where we are based and this size of job is exactly what my DH does. He is absolutely rushed off his feet though as there is huge demand for tradesmen who do this kind of smaller domestic work. It is absolutely back breaking though and exhausting and he works SO hard physically it's unbelievable. It is a shame that lots of the older style apprenticeships have gone as not everyone's strength lies in academia (I say that as an academic!).

Tell that to the tens of thousands of construction workers in Spain whose careers went tits up during the crash, along with something like 1/5 buildings that are still left empty.

You can never predict what the socioeconomic climate will look like for the future generation.

single ....People with daft degrees (media studies, and many others) end up working in MacDonalds

What a rude assumption.. I think you'll find daft people with degrees who can't apply themselves don't end up successful, don't lump everyone with a creative degree in together.

I have a very academic degree and I'm earning less than 4 the self-employed geniuses that you assume could only work at McDonalds.

People with daft degrees (media studies, and many others) end up working in MacDonalds
I know a number of people with degrees in law, computing, education, etc who also work in McDonalds or an equally crap job. There aren’t enough graduate jobs to go round, no matter what subject you studied.

trades are a good option for intelligent hard working youngsters.

competent electricians and plumbers are never out of work.

I agree, there is no shame to be had working with your hands, you will never be out of work!

competent electricians and plumbers are never out of work

Absolutely not true. DH was a very competent Part P qualified electrician. Had to close his business when the most recent property slump hit. Suddenly few people getting work done. Those that were demanded multiple quotes, quibbled over it then decided that Cousin Bob's, neighbour's cat would do the job for a tin of Whiskers.

They werent interested that the work was not legal and likely not safe.

Not everyone is cut out to be a plumber.

Dh has had a few young lads work alongside him who were pushed into it as their parents thought it was the right thing to do.

They hated it, couldn't retain information, didn't know one tool from another and unless dh was over seeing their work he had to put right even their basic errors, then the job doesn't get done in time and everyone on the job is held up.

It's a hard and harsh environment to work in if you're not 100% determined and happy to be there.

I'm trying to remember how much DH's initial training course cost. It was a couple of thousand. And that just covers for the basic, you need to do additional courses to get qualifications for various appliances.
And you have to renew them, again at a cost each time.

DH's dad was "Gas Board" trained and his City and Guild used to cover most domestic gas appliances. Over time the qualification has been carved up. He used to do courses to keep the same level of qualification despite little demand as he hated letting long-standing customers down.

@spanishwife

"I think you'll find daft people with degrees who can't apply themselves don't end up successful"

Did you mean to be so self-deprecating?

I really hope my children don't choose to go to uni (unless they need to do a vocational degree). If I had the choice for them which I obviously don't I would have them work straight from higher education and complete relevant qualifications on the job.

All of my friends who have been manual workers for 30-40 years have terrible health issues and are in constant pain. They might have had a lot more disposable income for a while but I certainly wouldn’t swap with them now IYKWIM.

I'm late 20s and out of everyone I went to school with the 2 groups of people who seem to be the most successful (as in have got on the property ladder, nice home, disposable income) are:

Those who went to uni with a set path to follow and a goal career that their degree directly led to

Those who did vocational qualifications and now work in a skilled trade

Then there are those (like me) who just went and did a useless degree because it was the 'done thing' for students who achieved above average grades at school. I'm not sure if it's the same now but back then there was a definite snobbery about vocational courses among parents and students too. Doing A-levels and a random degree that wouldn't lead to anything was preferable for some reason

Agree Frayed. These days you have to have one course for lpg one for domestic gas, one for commercial, one for catering etc etc

And going by the number of phone calls & CV’s I receive each week there are loads of unemployed gas fitters & electricians out there.

I think trades, like with any jobs etc have to take some willing and passion to learn so not sure how anyone could really force a teenager to engage in learning about something they’re not interested in. Having said that, my dad and brother are builders (dad is self empoloyed) he is absolutely minted, like he earns 60k+ each year and my brother is on £115 a day, my sisters partner is an electrician and he gets about 33 a year and my partner works in an office and he gets about 25 a year so traded are definitely the better paid field. However if they’re sick no one pays them, if they go on holiday they lose money and especially for my dad and brother if the weather is bad then they don’t get paid :/ they leave at 5am and don’t get home until about 5:30 and it’s not an easy job by any stretch of the imagination. My dad doesn’t have a pension plan he’s nearly 50 and will no doubt be working for another 5-10 years to ensure he has the money to live the rest of his life. Whereas by the time my partner is 50 he’ll have a lot in his work pension. The grass isn’t always greener I suppose :)

I do think more people ought to consider learning a trade rather than going for a general degree with no particular career aims.

However, when times are tough in the building trade, they are really bad. How many building firms went bust in the last recession?

Dbil was months without work and it was pretty much the same story amongst all our friends - you can bet they were taking on small half day jobs then.

I think you really need the discipline to save over the good times to cover the lean times. Same as any self-employed role though, I guess.

To be honest, they should teach more trades in school.
My ex loved metalwork and woodwork at school. Had a job as a furniture maker then switched to his other live of electronics and became an IT engineer.
Our DS, is technically minded and I hope he learns practical skills from his dad, (he is only 7) but I also want him to go to uni.

There are so many skills which were lost in the 80s with shipyards etc being shut down.
Really they should reopen technical colleges so people can study a trade and do,relevant exams from 14, instead of doing pointless degrees.

Im 26 and did welding at college (so 2008/2009ish?) not an apprenticeship in sight for love nor money. I'm now an engineer but I was 1 of 6, with 479 applicants for the apprenticeship.

Similarly my brother 2 years after me wanted to be a joiner but realistically would have taken any trade offered. He did work experience, volunteering weekly with the local authority restoring park benches etc and got told sorry no apprenticeships this year. He's now a cleaner. Utter fucking waste.

It's all well and good wishing your DCs would get a trade and crying out for good trades men and women but if no one is administering the training then it's an impossible dream.

Another way to look at it is, if it was so easy to make a living as a sole tradesman doing little jobs for people, more pekple would do it. The reality is it's really difficult - you need a range of skills, you spend a lot of time quoting for work you'll never get and you have to do all your own paperwork, invoice chasing etc . The small tradersmen I know struggle to make a living from it (except the electrician and the female decorator who you need to book months in advance).

My mates that are "in the trade" have never been so busy.

It's definitely the way to go - if there are no new builds going up, people invariably extend or tweak their current houses.

Whereas I know people that have put themselves into silly amounts of debt for spurious Degrees that are no use at all....