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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Tipping is not the done thing.

546 replies

Lyndaishistory · 10/08/2018 20:01

You are not expected to tip in the UK! I'm not sure why some people think otherwise.
I would only tip if service was above and beyond but it is not an expectation and I wouldn't "cave" if it was crap service.

Husband and I had a rubbish meal at a well known resturant chain for our anniversary. I complained at the time but nothing was done about it.
Left husband to pay the bill and he tipped them. Bloody hell, I want my fiver back!
Seriously considering LTB over this.

OP posts:
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 17/08/2018 22:19

Buswankeress, I'm actually conflicted myself... BlushGrin

When I said 'what's it to do with you' I meant that even if somebody were to whip out a bunch of tenners for you, you'd not be able to magic up a table out of thin air (if you are waiting staff).

If you are the sort of waiting staff who would turf somebody out of a table for the promise of a bunch of tenners then truly, you (general) don't deserve them and you're in the wrong business.

I think we all know restaurants where the conditions are terrible and the staff are unhappy. There's an obvious correlation there. By the same token, staff who are happy are generally working in a place where the conditions are good and fair. No surprise there.

It is the dives where the conditions are terrible that the tips probably make the most difference. Unhappy staff however generally don't manage to hide their unwillingness to 'go the (limited) extra mile feeling unappreciated. What's the customer to do? Tip for that mediocre service? It's not what I want to do and if I did, it would be grudging.

Bad places don't often have staff that delight customers. I know that's a bit of a contentious statement but, when I worked in my last council, I was butting heads with councillors most of the time and eventually couldn't care less. I mean, you don't get tipped in the council anyway but nobody would tip if they did because I was doing my job 'by the book' to avoid a rumpus. What was the point doing more?

Now I have a job that I love and people keep asking me if there are any jobs going in my place. There aren't - nobody leaves because it's a great place to work and we're really appreciated when we do something extraordinary.

I rambled a bit there sorry, but I was just making the point that happy, glittering staff who love their jobs and do over and above are the ones that generally are deserving of extra gratitude from customers - but it's the poor drudges who need tips to get by - yet generally these aren't deserved for the reasons I've said.

The only way to make things right in the hospitality industry would be to force the proprietors of sub-standard premises to improve and take care of their staff properly - or close. But I think we'd see job-losses rather than investment in staff because some owners are in it for the quick buck and have no vocation for or interest in, hospitality.

It's been said that carers, nurses, retail staff are 'irrelevant' in this discussion but surely, people in those professions don't think they should be considered irrelevant and I certainly think carers and nurses are more deserving of 'tips' than anybody else. It's serving staff themselves that cling to the convention of tipping because it benefits them. Hardly altruistic!

I still think that tipping needs to disappear as a 'thing', it's very unfair now and many posters have said they're on NMW themselves. Why should they be expected to tip? Some of the nonsense on this thread has been purposely inflammatory against those NMW posters - and that was bang out of order.

I do tip. I tip extremely well - but I won't do it for somebody doing their job. Somebody who does their job gets respect, friendliness and politeness from a customer (me) who isn't demanding and doesn't make any sort of mess ever. Perhaps I should be tipped as a customer? Wink

Where you have hoards of messy, noisy, demanding people who come in in groups, commandeering large sections of the establishment, a service charge should be levied. Nothing wrong with that. Tipping isn't necessary still because the staff don't work harder - they're still on paid time, still have to clear tables, take and bring orders and arrange the bill. Whether it's 2 groups of 10, 10 groups of 2 or 20 singles - the number of covers is the same and staff are paid for their time not their tasks during that time, as far as I remember.

I don't ever want to be in the business of perfunctory tipping (which so many seem to laud as some kind of superior thing; it isn't). How does tipping for anything but excellence encourage that? I don't believe it does, it just fosters massive expectation on the part of waiting staff who deliver mediocre, adequate (or not) service. What's the incentive to ever achieve better?

Still, there are enough shrapnel-tippers to keep this nonsensical 'thing' trundling on for now and in the meantime, I'll carry on delighting brilliant waiting staff who really get the full force of my appreciation as I'll take the time to speak to their manager and/or write to head office - and conversely, I'll continue to be respectful, friendly and polite to the purveyors of mediocre service too.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 17/08/2018 22:20

Crivens that was long, sorry. Shock

swanlife · 17/08/2018 23:16

LyingWithInTheWardrobe it wouldn't make me magic a table into thin air but it would make the obcene extra hassle a bit easier to swallow (these customers take my time from other tables. I really wouldn't want to give bad service).
Like I said in my earlier post no one should be obligated to tip and of course I'd rather have loads of nice tables and no tips than difficult tables and tips.
I said slow eaters etc because I had to hang around for 90 minutes after closing time (very late at night ) for a table who were just chatting. No tip. I got my wage but a bit of appreciation that we waited on them and we're still nice (I hope!) after we should all be home and in bed would have been nice.
Also big groups who arrive (without booking) they completely sap time away from other tables as well. The issue is how much of their fair share of time they take.
Best customers are customers who are nice of course. And it's up to everyone how they want to spend they're money. I get a fair wage. I budget with my wage (for me it's savings) and Tips are a bit of spending money so I enjoy my summer when I'm not working. I always appreciate them 😀
No one should feel obligated but of course I still like the idea of tipping 😉

Stefoscope · 17/08/2018 23:20

I disagree that retail is easier than waiting on. In the age of online sellers every man and his dog expects your in store prices to be equal to or cheaper than online. You never get tips as a shop assistant. Waiting on at least a certain percentage of your customer base is likely to offer you a tip, so long as the food is half decent and delivered in a semi-timely fashion.

swanlife · 17/08/2018 23:22

And we do work harder on bigger tables. You have orders being thrown around at you all over the place. The kitchen (who benefit from tips as well) have to coordinate 20 plates of food to leave at the same time everything happens all at once which ultimately take longer than if it happened a little at a time. Then you have the bill. Everyone wants to pay for exactly what they had so you sit behind the till working out who had what and which starter was shared and who had what wine.
In ten tables of two you just don't have these problems. I wish we serviced charged bigs groups because they rarely tip and my sympathy lies with the kitchen.
There is nothing altruistic about it really 💁‍♀️ I appreciate it. Money helps me out. But you are right to say plenty of other NMW people deserve it more than me. But same could be said for division of wealth in all walks of life.

swanlife · 17/08/2018 23:24

Stefoscope I image there's less time spent directly with customers (stock room work etc) but I can imagine it being much ruder or abrupt when directly interacting with them.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 18/08/2018 10:08

Fair dos, swanlife, at least you recognise the disparity and are not coming across as vastly entitled (as some have).

I have clients that I really like very much and others that I have to dose myself up with paracetamol and a Kalm tablet before I see them. There's no recognition for that, my job is my job and that's the same for many people. There is no scope for 'tipping' other than for waiting staff and it doesn't make commercial sense for lesser establishments to up their game - customers are 'expected' to do that.

Enjoy making hay whilst the sun shines then; might as well. Grin

Lyndaishistory · 18/08/2018 12:12

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe
Would you mind explaining what shrapnel tipping is?

OP posts:
LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 18/08/2018 12:49

Lyndaishistory, it's just means tipping that's a bit derisory, 'rounding up'.

To me, any tip that's worth giving is given for excellent service, over and above. There is a great example on this thread - AHardManisGoodToFind - that's excellence. If they were serving me I'd most probably give them - in their hand - with a smile and exclamation of delight - £5-20. Depends on what they were doing, with an eye on the overall bill so as not to embarrass them, but none of this 10-15% nonsense.

There are so many posters on this thread and any other about tipping, that think that putting down their change for a tip is anything to boast about. For a start, it's nobody else's business what others do and to be honest, I doubt that their 'input' makes much of a difference to the server. When I tip, it does because it's not just about the money, it's about their work being so remarkable that I make sure their manager/head office knows. The money is just an outward sign of my delight. The behind-the-scenes notification of people who judge and gauge the server's effectiveness, is what really counts and can change their circumstances.

My explanations on this are always so long, sorry!

Lyndaishistory · 18/08/2018 19:13

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe
Thanks for explaining.

I didn't realise the subject of tipping would get people's backs up so much. Definitely more than a few posters were being rather judgemental on this thread!

OP posts:
liverbird10 · 18/08/2018 20:47

I was in minimum wage jobs for years while rebuilding my career. On rare meals out (which are treats, and were therefore not exactly top of my priority list. Little things like paying bills came first), I'd simply budget for having enough to give a tip as well as a meal. It was difficult to manage, but I'm not enough of a self-centres Marseille not to do it.

liverbird10 · 18/08/2018 20:49

*Marseille?! Autocorrect fail...

Lyndaishistory · 18/08/2018 21:02

liverbird10
I do tip. My original post was regarding my husband tipping shite service.
I'm happy that you choose to tip. Don't judge others who don't.

OP posts:
Rainbunny · 18/08/2018 21:24

This is specifically related the the USA where tipping is considered a part of the waiter's pay not just by the restaurant owners but by the federal government! The federal government includes an exception for staff who make a living in an industry where they are tipped and are therefore exempt from being paid minimum wage. In practice that means your waiter may well be paid the grand sum of $2 per hour to work because they expected to receive tips to make up the difference. So to all the posters who claim to never tip in the USA - you are being areseholes.

fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-minimum-wage-movement-is-leaving-tipped-workers-behind/

This is the reason the Brits have such a terrible reputation in tourist areas in the USA - we are sadly infamous for not tipping. I have friends who have waited tables who tell me the moment they hear a British accent among a party at a table they will try everything they can to NOT be the one to serve the table of Brits!

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 19/08/2018 10:10

Rainbunny, I've never been to the USA, keep meaning to go.

I'm interested, why didn't the federal government just make the necessary stipulations of NMW, apply those requirements onto the businesses and the businesses then put up the prices so that the customers pay those? So everybody has a living wage.

If I went to the States, I'd pay the tip as a surcharge. If I had excellent service then I'd pay a lot more. Surly faces trying to avoid the table wouldn't do it for me, I'd just pay the 'surcharge'.

user1457017537 · 19/08/2018 14:12

In Vegas you tip the valets a dollar to get a cab. Would you not tip a dollar in these circumstances. Just curious. Also when I say shrapnel I don’t mean pennies but pound coins and say rounding £15.60 up to £18 or £20.00 depending on the service. I wouldn’t leave a 20p tip anywhere.

BarnabyBungle · 19/08/2018 14:35

I will tip if service is reasonable or better, but not if poor...

However, I really dislike this practice where waiting staff are rewarded based on the whim of the customer.... it’s patronising. I’m not clear why this is seen as a good thing! It seems like many have been brainwashed to think it is though.

When you think about it, it’s absurd and arbitrary.... It’s crazy that we think Waiting staff should be rewarded a % of the meal price, effectively saying that waiters in an expensive restaurant get far more than those elsewhere for doing the same job....but we don’t tip the chefs or cleaners at the restaurant... and then we kind of make tipping a social expectation but it’s not really a requirement, ensuring that waiters are reliant on the diners’ generosity.

But then we don’t tip check our staff however good their service is! What’s the reasoning for that?

BarnabyBungle · 19/08/2018 14:43

It would be far simpler and more reasonable if we all just paid the stated price for everything, with their being no expectation of a tip... and then a tip for outstanding service would be a genuinely generous gesture rather than this faux generosity that is more about being seen to be a decent person, which is all very Hycinth Bucket.

LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726 · 19/08/2018 14:51

Absolutely, BarnabyBungle, I totally agree.

BarnabyBungle · 19/08/2018 15:03

and then we kind of make tipping a social expectation but it’s not really a requirement, ensuring that waiters are reliant on the diners’ generosity.

Actually I think I was wrong here.... waiters (hairdressers, taxi drivers, other randomly selected jobs deemed worthy etc) aren’t dependent on their client’s generosity but their willingness to partake in this weird social convention.

How it can be right to think this is a reasonable way of remunerating low paid workers is beyond me.

pouraglasshalffull · 19/08/2018 15:08

Waiters(esses) in the UK earn a wage that they can live on, I understand this is different in the US, but in the UK a tip is a bonus rather than making up for the rest of their tiny wage

I always tip unless I receive awful service + food, I had breakfast yesterday morning at a well known chain and it was awful. The waiter barely said 3 words to us. But that also reflects the difference between UK and US service, waiters in the US are always polite, friendly and go above and beyond, waiters in the UK don't always do this.

I agree with OP, in the UK Ill give someone a tip if they deserve it, if they don't then I wont.

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