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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to ask about dads rights

94 replies

laura6032 · 07/08/2018 11:52

My DH works night shift, I know dads are entitled to to take time off unpaid to attend up to 2 antenatal appointments, but how does that work if you are night shift.

I know some expectant mothers have had issues with this too.

Are you just expected to go to these appointments exhausted, or should your employer be a bit more accommodating. thanks in advance xx

OP posts:

Hidillyho · 07/08/2018 14:40

Why can’t he just book holiday?

It’s not unfair, it’s just the way it is. As other people have said, the time off is for the actual appointment.
The appointment is likely to be an hour maximum so it’s not as if he is losing out on much. If he was working a 9-5 job he would be required to go back to work after anyway so I’m not sure what it is you would expect him to gain from it? Or do you think all men get full days off for pregnancy related appointments?

Hidillyho · 07/08/2018 14:42

I would also suggest one of you learns to drive if the appointment travelling time is so long.

Branleuse · 07/08/2018 14:44

i dont understand what you expect his work to do in order to accomodate appointments on his time off? Especially since theyre not even appointments for him.
Bizarre.

RubiksQueen · 07/08/2018 14:45

Why doesn't he just go straight to hospital and meet you there? I don't buy this 'I need someone there or I can't go out' because you would have to go alone if he couldn't come and you would be going to most appointments alone if he worked days as he wouldn't get all that time off. Also presumably he does not do all the school runs as well as working nights.

He could meet you there and then go home to sleep while you go and pick up the other child. Why do you live 1.5 hours from your booking hospital? I find it hard to believe that there's no exaggeration there; why would you live somewhere so remote when nobody in the household drives and work is an hour away?

ems137 · 07/08/2018 14:45

The main reason I started working night shifts was so I was free to attend day time appointments and events relating to my children.

MotsDHeureGoussesRames · 07/08/2018 14:45

Nope OP - it's not unfair. Your attitude is very entitled. Do you genuinely believe your DH should get a shift off (unpaid or not, the employer would have to pay to cover him) to attend an appointment in non-working hours?! If so, you are deluded because that is not how it works. His employer should not lose out because of YOUR personal circumstances.

Yet another:
OP: AIBU
MN: yes
OP: whines no, I'm not, it's not faaaaaair.
MN:

GoatWithACoat · 07/08/2018 14:45

Tell him to grow up and book a days holiday if he can’t cope with broken sleep.

He’s going to have to get used to going work with fuck all sleep soon anyway.

myrtleWilson · 07/08/2018 14:46

at the risk of repeating everyone else - if he worked day shifts he wouldn't have had all that time off though would he? And if he would have booked the day off as holiday to allow for the excessive travelling required then why couldn't he book a night shift off to allow him to recuperate..

MotsDHeureGoussesRames · 07/08/2018 14:47

And yes - he should book holiday like everyone else who wants time off to accommodate personal issues.

RubiksQueen · 07/08/2018 14:47

But no, none of this is his employer's issue at all. The employer has to make it possible for employees to leave work to attend appointments so they aren't penalised for accessing care. They aren't providing recompense in some way for that time if you aren't in work because the issue (being at work) just doesn't exist.

If I have an appointment in the morning and then have a 1730-2300 shift I can't say 'well you need to give me time back because I'm tired cos I had to get up for an appointment'

InsuranceGirl · 07/08/2018 14:48

My understanding is even if your appointments were during your partners work hours he’d only be allowed to attend two appointments during the whole pregnancy unpaid.

Different companies have different policies however.

My partner books annual leave so he’s not rushed for any of the appointments and so it won’t impact on his pay.

peodar · 07/08/2018 14:52

Ha ha you think this is unfair? Just wait until the paternity pay gets sorted out! DH will be losing his entitlement to a bank holiday if it falls during his leave, it's 2 weeks that must be taken as blocks for naff all cash and even though his business closes he won't get any time or cash for it at all. UK employment law almost always favours employer over employee. And Brexit will make it worse!

jasjas1973 · 07/08/2018 14:55

You have listed a whole load of problems that will make this difficult for your DH. Not a single one of them is your employers issue. Grow up

this is also true of women who get pregnant but the employer (by law no less) has to bend over backwards and at great cost to accommodate their needs.

i thought we were all trying to help fathers become more involved in child care etc but it seems not.

The employer should be trying to alter his shift pattern around the appointment, ensuring their worker is well rested before his next shift and also helping him to met his family obligations.

MingeUterusMingeMingeYoni · 07/08/2018 15:02

i thought we were all trying to help fathers become more involved in child care etc but it seems not.

This isn't childcare. There's no connection between attendance at antenatal appointments and childcare, unless OP has older DC she's not mentioned. There's not even a connection between attendance and being an involved parent, and I say this as someone who does sympathise, because shift work can be really hard.

jasjas1973 · 07/08/2018 15:18

Law enables a father to take part in ante natal appointments but not if you re a night worker... a hospital porter say, is a vital part of the NHS and not one we should just dismiss with a "well your choice..get a day job" try saying that when you need transferring to x-ray after breaking your leg.

I d suggest the law is their because it recognises that dads who take an active part in pregnancy are more likely to be active with their kids too.

As i said, a decent employer would try an accommodate.

MingeUterusMingeMingeYoni · 07/08/2018 15:30

A decent employer would try to accommodate if possible, yes, but this is still not a child care issue. You're making assumptions about the reasoning behind the legislation, that's all, but with nothing to back them up.

m0therofdragons · 07/08/2018 15:31

You do realise the baby will mean less sleep too when he/she arrives? You're going to need to toughen up. I've been up all night with a toddler and baby twins then gone to work the next day because that's life with small children!

SillySallySingsSongs · 07/08/2018 15:37

The employer should be trying to alter his shift pattern around the appointment, ensuring their worker is well rested before his next shift and also helping him to met his family obligations.

Very few/no employers are going to give 3-4 hours to travel to an appointment. They just aren't. It would mean giving someone an entire day off.

There is also responsibility on OPs DH part as well to ensure he is well rested.

What happens when the baby is here and he can't be 'well rested' through baby being awake? Then what.

jasjas1973 · 07/08/2018 15:56

Well, thats a problem for the future, i know when i did a nights call out, my partner would take baby out for the day, whilst i slept, longer term, i stopped doing call-out.

I didnt say the employer should give him paid or unpaid 4 hours off work, i said the employer should try and alter his shift pattern so he can attend, not unreasonable surely?

Being well rested means people dont make mistakes, some of which might prove to be very costly.

Nicknacky · 07/08/2018 15:59

Or he takes annual leave. If the employer has to change his shift then he will be dayshift and therefore not there. He either works his nightshift or takes it off.

Or not go to the appointment.

BlueBug45 · 07/08/2018 16:06

On the first page I pointed out that my OH had colleagues who would happily swap shifts with him if required, and he has done the same for other people. My sister-in-laws, who work for the NHS, have had to do that in the past to take care of sick children.

So why is the onus solely on the employer to sort it out when the employee should be capable of talking to colleagues and being proactive?

That's how adults sort out their lives rather than moan it isn't fair.

Original poster

laura6032 · 07/08/2018 16:07

Father's are entitled to unpaid time off to attend two ante natal appointments, up to 6.5 hours per appointment.

My oh used his holidays for both scans and has booked holidays for a further two we have to go to. And used annual leave when our first child was born when he worked a day shift job.

We don't live hour and half from the maternity I'll be going to to give birth, I've been feeling faint and passing out and HAVE been unable to go out alone as I have collapsed twice and spent time in hospital, all of which oh has done around shifts.

We do drive, I am unable to with current condition, and stroke of luck, car off road till next week.

I was sent to another maternity for this appointment, that is hour and half at least due to bus route, I am not in the country I'm in a town.

My oh was in middle of doing 5 in a row 12 hour shifts, asked his employer for hols, told no, shift swap no, to reduce hours to look after pregnant oh who is ill and needs to go to hospital, his employer would not accommodate.

Yes maybe these are not the problem of the employer, and in this occasion I'll be entitled as it's my health and our babies health.

And employers do have an obligation and duty of care to their employees.

I came on here this morning for advice, I did not expect so many judgemental, over critical unsympathetic people.

OP posts:

Nicknacky · 07/08/2018 16:31

People aren’t being unsympathetic but are realistic. Your H is in a position he can come to the appointment which is great.

BlueBug45 · 07/08/2018 16:36

And employers do have an obligation and duty of care to their employees.

You aren't the employee or a child of that employee therefore the legal duty of care is limited to time off for your OH to attend two of your antenatal appointments in working hours.

Your appointments are outside your OH's scheduled working hours so therefore he doesn't get the time off.

Oh and the trick with employers who lack empathy is to find another job as soon as feasibly possible, and tell them clearly why you have left.

SparklyMagpie · 07/08/2018 16:53

You both just have to suck it up then. He'll be knackered when baby arrives. It's nobody else's problem no matter how unfair you think it is.

Nobody is being judgemental, just bloody realistic

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