To think schools shouldn't teach religion as absolute fact?

[PoesyCherish]

DSD is 6 and is learning about Christianity in school. They're teaching her Jesus is the Son of God rather than "some people believe he is". Everything about the religion is taught as fact. They've also failed to mention anything about any other religion.

AIBU to think they shouldn't be teaching it as absolute fact? How are children supposed to be understanding and tolerant of other people's beliefs if they're taught one world view as fact?

[BananaToffo]

*I don't think there should be any faith schools
*
Me neither. And I think the fact that we have them makes it very difficult, in large part, to have a truly even-handed approach in lessons about religion - which, you're right, are needed.

It's just that America isn't (imo) the best example for anything, good or bad at the moment.

You have the far-right gun lobby screaming about their constitutional right to be armed, and the far-right Christians (usually the same people) trying to force their religion into schools & government and getting pissed off when anyone else tries to uphold their own constitutional right to freedom from religion.

[Reteacher101]

Mutually inclusive? I don’t think they are, and I didn’t say they were. I think you’re just looking to pick holes in whatever I say!

[Reteacher101]

Tofffo I think understanding some of the nuances of religion helps children be more analytical about opinions they hear. So they can question, for example, why far right Christians think life is sacred when it comes to abortion but not capital punishment.

[CantankerousCamel]

So if morality can be taught without religion, why do we need to teach religion?

I do think we should teach about religions, from a social science perspective if nothing else.

[politicalcorrectnessisgreat]

One day religion will just be taught in history lessons

[Reteacher101]

Camel, because there are millions of religious people in the world.

[CantankerousCamel]

That’s no reason to bombard children with faith as truth from an early age.

To tell children from 4 that Jesus lived and was tortured on a cross then came back to life.

Stating these stories as truth, is not okay.

[BananaToffo]

I don't really see the need to teach about specific doctrines. Will we do that for all religions, or just the "special" one....Christianity?

You can broadly teach about about all of them, and what each religion generally believes. If nothing else, it's important to have a basic knowledge otherwise much history & literature won't make sense.

I also can't see why religion always gets lumped in with morality & ethics. Most religious teachings are neither moral nor ethical and I don't like the implication that religion has a special voice that ought to be listened to when discussing such matters. It doesn't no matter how much it thinks it does.

[BananaToffo]

There are million of people in the world who consult their horoscopes daily but we don't teach that nonsense in school. Religion earns a small place because of the role it's played in history, but it's actual teachings are no more sensible than horoscopes, and have nothing of any significance to say, to deserve to be sidelined in the same manner.

School ought to be about evidence based facts.

[politicalcorrectnessisgreat]

My 5 yo Dd was traumatised about the Easter story. She asked me to ask if she could leave the classroom when they talked about hammering the nails in the man hands

[CantankerousCamel]

Political I was livid they went into so much detail with my five year old.

How DARE these people do that? How can anyone think it is acceptable or okay

[Gin96]

Oh I went to a catholic school and the things they taught us were unbelievable. We were not allowed to be taught about birth control but my biology teacher said it was ridiculous and taught to us any way, she was then sacked. They showed us videos of abortions and said we would go to hell if we ever had one. It put me off religion for life. I am talking 40 years ago, the things they got away with under the name of religion

[Gin96]

And girls were told periods were a curse from god for Eve giving Adam the apple.

[reteacher101]

Stating these stories as truth, is not okay
I totally agree.

[CantankerousCamel]

The Catholic Church thought nothing of starving children to death while claiming money from the government for their food.

Or sawing women’s pelvis’s in half so they could ‘do God’s work’ and have more children.

Seriously messed up, hideous organisation. The disregard for human life, the hatred of women and the complete lack of care or sense of responsibility for the welfare of children is literally penned in its teachings.

How or why ANYONE in this day and age trusts, prays with, gives MONEY TO or respects the Catholic Church is beyond me.

It’s an absolute abomination, a stain on society.

Catholic schools? Should be illegal.

[sweetsomethings]

Wow gin that’s worse than I thought how dare they. Totally disgusting behaviour .

[sweetsomethings]

Cantankerous so many valid points there.

[PoesyCherish]

@Cantankerous please stop grouping all Catholics together as one. You cannot group all Catholics together any more than you can group all Muslims or all Hindus or all Sikhs together. Whilst I get what you're saying about Catholicism being one slice of Christianity, not all Catholics believe the same. Just like not all Anglicans believe the same thing. Whilst the Catholic church is guilty of covering up some awful crimes and whilst I'm sure there are some Catholics who do probably support that, the vast majority of them don't.

@Gin96 that is awful you weren't supposed to be taught contraception. The view on periods reminds me of an ex. He told me pain during birth is God's punishment to us for Eve eating the apple, so under no circumstances would I be allowed pain relief! Yeah, he was crazy...

[MeyMary]

I personally always thought that the idea of women still being punished for the original sin (and therefore not being allowed to
receive painkillers or other assistance meant to decrease the possible pain and damage) makes no sense from a Christian or Catholic perspective...

It seems like pure misogyny tbh. Or do these people argue that they (as men) also need hard labour and need to work the ground?
And what about the punishment of death, if Jesus is the source of eternal life? They don't seem to doubt that part.


And the bible does not exclude women from the atonement / the ransom paid for sin
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood--to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished (New International Version, Rom:24 - 3:25)

We are all justified / just like we were all the reason for Christ's passion.

The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! John 1:29


And the sin of the world would surely include the original sin? And the world would also include humans who happen to be women?


As for the Catholic church :

CCC 605 At the end of the parable of the lost sheep Jesus recalled that God's love excludes no one: "So it is not the will of your Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish." He affirms that he came "to give his life as a ransom for many"; this last term is not restrictive, but contrasts the whole of humanity with the unique person of the redeemer who hands himself over to save us. The Church, following the apostles, teaches that Christ died for all men without exception: "There is not, never has been, and never will be a single human being for whom Christ did not suffer."

Unless they want to make the argument that the whole of humanity does not include women/people with periods?

I hope this makes sense in English (and I just picked the first Englisch bible translation I found, you may obviously have a different preference)...

[Gin96]

Oh poor you op. Men are such pricks if they had to give birth the human race would not exist

[PoesyCherish]

Thankfully @Gin96 the conversation was purely hypothetical. I'd have been a lot more fuming if I was pregnant or ttc at the time!

Ahh but @MeyMary don't you know they don't need hard labour because it's all woman's fault and why should men be punished for woman eating the apple It does make sense what you've said. I don't think logic or rational arguments even remotely comes to it for people like my ex.

[CantankerousCamel]

Actually I CAN group all Catholics together. Everyone knows what they directly fund. I don’t have to give any respect to them anymore than I do sects of any other religion that abuse and oppression women, children and the poor.

[MeyMary]

CantankerousCamel

I can unfortunately think of less "sects" (=mainstream religions like Catholicism...) that don't have issues in regards to gender equality. Which is and has obviously been a huge issue for women.

Particularly the abrahamic religions and most of their denominations/branches...

don't you know they don't need hard labour because it's all woman's fault and why should men be punished for woman eating the apple hmm

I know. Even though Adam was also punished and also ate from the apple.

[CantankerousCamel]

Mey

I can understand that. But I think Catholicism takes it to the extreme. You have people who are educated enough to know that there are other ways of praying to the same god, who are still choosing to stand with and fund a church which has stated it has used that money to move and support peadophiles while they keep raping children.

It would be exactly the same as someone in this country seeing the atrocities committed by certain Muslim sects abroad and yet stating proudly that they fund those people and send their children to schools owned by them. People would rightly be appalled by that. I am equally appalled by people funding Catholicism or utilising catholic schools.

[MeyMary]

You have people who are educated enough to know that there are other ways of praying to the same god

I'm not sure what gave you this idea, tbh... The Catholic saints, the catechism, the hierarchy etc are uniquely Catholic. I mean, there's also orthodox Christianity but whether that is more ethical according to a most modern / secular perspectives is imo doubtable... And there are still some key differences.

It's a bit like telling an Orthodox Jew to abandon Orthodoxy because Reform Judaism is still Judaism / worships the same God.
Or an evangelical Christian that they could just become Catholic...

But worshipping the same God isn't just want Abrahamic faiths are about. I mean, Islam, Judaism and non-trinitarian Christianity worship the same God. But these faiths are not just interchangeable.

It may seem this way to nonbelievers / atheists but I suspect that most people in their respective faiths wouldn't agree...