What do you think happens when we die?

[Frosty6611]

Just had this discussion with my DP and mum and we all had a completely different answers.

I believe in reincarnation.

My DP is an atheist and believes nothing happens.

My mum believes in heaven/hell.

Stephen Fry really thought he was great coming out with that that one didn't he.So because of these "worms" there can't be a God?

No, because he created so many awful things unnecessarily, to create suffering, I struggle to believe he can be kind or benevolent.

It’s originally from Darwin the “worms” argument against God but it was some kind of parasitic wasp iirc.

It doesn’t address anything because the world in the fallen state is not how God intended it and people in more faithful ages were well aware of how horrific it could be (in many ways far more than we are or even people in Darwin’s day were).

Lazyhazy - no. I don’t think you can choose to believe in something.

You’re either convinced something is true or you’re not.

You can BEHAVE as if you believe, and you can SAY you believe but that doesn’t mean you’re convinced.

Belief isn’t a choice.

"It doesn’t address anything because the world in the fallen state is not how God intended it and people in more faithful ages were well aware of how horrific it could be."

It might not address anything for you. But the thread is about what we as individuals believe happens after death. I'm explaining my opinion that's all. I personally don't accept that a loving all-powerful god would allow us to suffer. None of the arguments about why he allows it make sense to me.

notpertickly Oh well, i'm convinced i believe then. I'm also convinced that the Universe didn't start from nothing by itself.

Why can't we look at the unbelievably beautiful things that He created. He created this world that we live in, man has fucked it up, so,let's blame man not God.

Man didn't create parasites and drought and earthquakes and viruses.

I'm just talking about my beliefs. I think it's wonderful if people can look past all of that and still see a benevolent god that has created a perfect afterlife for us. It just doesn't make sense to me. If he couldn't be arsed getting it right here, I don't trust him to get the next bit right either.

What do you mean "he couldn't be arsed getting it right here"? who are we to presume he meant everything to be perfect here. This is only where we learn. It's not meant to be "right", but perhaps a small glimpse of what is to come. But regarding getting it right, he's not done a bad job, the earth consistently rotates round the sun, day in day out. The sun always rises in the east and sets in the west. I could go on and on and on about what he got "right", I think he was very much "arsed" about what he wanted to get right. But if you want perfection, i'm afraid you'll have to wait. Meanwhile try to appreciate the absolute wonders of nature that he did get "right". I think it's awesome.

I suppose if everything was perfect from the day we were born until we died then we wouldn’t appreciate anything and would become complacent

Well there’s also the question of where you draw the line - if we are prevented from killing but allowed to think hateful thoughts how will we learn how dark and horrific our hateful thoughts really are? God lets us suffer all the consequences of our choices even when they corrupt the whole world. But he knows it will be renewed and every tear will be wiped away one day. We’re in the bit of the story where something terrible has happened but he sees the ending when it is all made right again.

Benevolence varies depending on the information available to you, so there is no logical way to prove or disprove benevolence based on our own perception. A child has to eat greens, the parent understands why and the child does not, this isn't proof the parent doesn't have the child's best interests at heart. Given that the nature of God as described in the scripture implies both omnipresence and experiencing all of time as if in the present tense (the great I Am), if you were to accept that possibility for the sake of argumeny and logical analysis, it would stand to reason that you might push buttons, create ecosystems, impose limitations in one place for the greater good that those with access to much less information would not understand to be a good thing at all. We can't even run a wildlife reserve or look after pets without doing this, so it would follow that running universes would involve the same effect.

In any case, this thread is not about debating the existence of God or His benevolence, it is for stating one's beliefs, so I'll just leave that thought there and let people get on with it.

Man certainly does cause droughts. Loom at the historical desertification of N Africa. Look at global warming.

If anything happens to us then it happens to all animals and living things I assume, humans have such massive egos. I'm sure all those that think they go to heaven or something don't think all the flies and mosquitos do

Can we really expect to know all the answers to everything, it's all too far beyond what our brains are capable of. We'll know one day, but not in this life.

Out bodies decompose and become part of something else. It's an endless cycle and one I actually find quite comforting. Right now I am me, here, this collection of cells, in 1000 years all the bits that are currently me will be in other things.

I don't believe in gods, or an afterlife, or anything similar.

I think heaven was created as a concept to comfort people and stop the fear of death. It would be lovely to believe that one day we will see our loved ones again, especially my dad who died last year, but I really cannot believe that there is anything more after this life. I wish I could believe in hell as well, as so many people deserve that, however those who believe in the concepts as true, then that is their porogative.

What I can stand is the concept of blaming the devil for all bad things, and praising god for all the good. It is us humans to do the good and the bad, not mythical beings, but that’s just my opinion.

CAN’T STAND that should read!

What about babies who go to heaven? Would they always remain as tiny babies

I don't believe so, no. IMO the body you see may be that of a little child, but the soul within it is infinite and may even be a very advanced one, which has elected to learn another lesson by spending a short time here in a position of helplessness

What about babies who go to heaven?

If you#re Catholic then you're taught there's a special kind of hell reserved just for this occasion.

Thank god (irony intended) that atheism is the fastest growing belief in the UK.

@lazyhazysummer the worm analogy comes from Epicurus
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

@Trazey atheism isn't a belief. It's the default position; to not believe in something that has no evidence.

Trazey Do you mean the ultra-traditional view that unbaptised babies go into limbo because they're still full of original sin?

If so, I'd say that's just another example of how some religions have forgotten the true light, losing it in dogma and the repetition of pointless observances which have long since lost their meaning

Their intentions are no doubt good and a kernel of truth may remain somewhere, but somehow, over the ages, it's all become muddled and obscured by those as fallible as the rest of us

@Nakedavenger74

Very interesting hypothesis. I think that theism is the default position as many are too weak to comprehend that actually, humans are pretty insignificant and that there's no greater being or plan for us.

Humans are pretty easily tricked, largely due to our egos.

I say this as a big anti-theist.

Trazey Do you mean the ultra-traditional view that unbaptised babies go into limbo because they're still full of original sin

This was abolished, if that's the correct term, in 2007. By the then Pope.