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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be fed up of the attitudes towards women without children

103 replies

heuiwp · 04/08/2018 18:03

NC. I realise MN may not be the ideal audience for this, but let me say this isn't a dig or jealously at working mums. It's more a rant about bosses and the attitude towards women who don't have kids.

Everywhere I've worked, bosses seem to think if you don't have children, you don't have commitments or a life. They think you're the one they can ask to stay late, do overtime, go to conferences etc etc, as you don't have kids to go home to.

AIBU to think this is bloody unfair? Even if we don't have kids, that doesn't mean we want to be slaves to the job with no work/life balance. It seems if you have children you're allowed to put your life first, but if you don't, you have to put your work first without question.

My employer is introducing a new shift system, and the working mums have been granted all the 'nice' shifts, whereas us without children have been given the more unsociable ones. It winds me up.I have a partner, hobbies, things to do outside of work too.

And please don't say 'have kids then'. I would if I could, but regardless, I'm fed up of the way people think childless women have no lives.

OP posts:
TidyDancer · 04/08/2018 18:06

YANBU. I have DCs and I don't think colleagues should have to put themselves out to accommodate them. It would be incredibly selfish of me to expect to get preferential shift patterns. Everyone should be treated equally. Obviously there will need to be some exceptions to this because there will be parents with childcare issues etc.

kenandbarbie · 04/08/2018 18:07

Are you sure it isn't to facilitate school pick ups etc? They can't be changed, whereas perhaps you have more flexibility about when you do things. Not that you don't have a life at all, but say, you can book a holiday in September but people with children can't. Perhaps not but just thought it could be a possibility.

Original poster
heuiwp · 04/08/2018 18:11

No it's not pick ups @kenandbarbie , it's just because it's assumed they'll want to spend more time at home. Some of these don't even pick their kids up as they're at secondary school anyway.

Plus, they didn't even request the flexible patterns because of kids, we all requested what we wanted and the bosses gave preference to the mums requests without even asking for reasons.

OP posts:
LisaSimpsonsbff · 04/08/2018 18:11

Not that you don't have a life at all, but say, you can book a holiday in September but people with children can't.

a) Maybe she can't? Maybe her partner is a teacher, for instance? And this is why we shouldn't make assumptions about people's lives.
b) in any case, that's none of her work's business. They should only be treating people differently if they have agreed flexible working arrangements - and they should be decided solely on impact to the business, not on whether or not they're to facilitate childcare. Blanket giving all the sociable shifts to parents is completely unreasonable.

onanothertrain · 04/08/2018 18:12

I agree completely and i have also found that the subject of paid parental leave can be a major bone of contention

nokidshere · 04/08/2018 18:15

No Yanbu

All personnel should be treated equally and I hope you have told your boss what you have posted here.

Obviously there will need to be some exceptions to this because there will be parents with childcare issues etc.

Childcare problems are not the fault of either the other staff or the managers. If you can't get childcare to cover a shift then you need to be looking at a different job and only applying for ones that you are actually free to do.

Of course emergencies should be covered, and a shift change totally different from the one you signed up, but other than that childcare should not come into it

bridgetreilly · 04/08/2018 18:17

Right. I don't think bosses should be making ANY assumptions about people's commitments outside work. You might be, for example, a carer for a parent or sibling, or you might have a hundred cats, or whatever.

I do think that as someone without children, I would generally prefer to take annual leave during school terms anyway, so it suits me and presumably that also suits the people with kids who would prefer theirs during the holidays. So there can be times where it's helpful to be helpful. But no one else should be assuming these things on anyone else's behalf.

JacquesHammer · 04/08/2018 18:19

YANBU OP

I have a child and never for a minute would have expected to have received special treatment had I returned to work

My employers were incredibly fair though, which was useful because a woman in my dept wanted every school holiday off.

bridgetreilly · 04/08/2018 18:22

Plus, they didn't even request the flexible patterns because of kids, we all requested what we wanted and the bosses gave preference to the mums requests without even asking for reasons.

Do you have a union rep? I would be talking to them about this.

SnuggyBuggy · 04/08/2018 18:24

YANBU. You can either manage the work pattern or you can't.

StealthPolarBear · 04/08/2018 18:31

It is shit. But as a child free woman do you find you progress faster at work?

bananafish81 · 04/08/2018 18:33

YANBU. But last time there was a thread about this, all us childless women were told we were selfish for wanting to have time off at Xmas and should let the parents have Xmas off with their kids.

Also @StealthPolarBear I'm not sure the OP is child free. She may not be child free - aka childless by choice. She may be childless not by choice.

Original poster
heuiwp · 04/08/2018 18:36

I wouldn't say I have progressed faster because I don't have kids - I haven't really progressed at all but from what I've seen, progressing comes down to personalities and ability.

I've also learnt staying late, working through your lunch etc means nothing when it comes to promotions, pay rises etc.

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 04/08/2018 18:37

True apologies no offence meant at all. I assumed childless was insulting as I assumes children are desired.
Either way, mothers should not be discriminated against in the workplace but women (and men) without children should not have to organise their lives around them.

StealthPolarBear · 04/08/2018 18:39

X post. Well if that's the case then there really is no silver lining. Where I am if you work extra it is recognised (imo anyway).

387I2 · 04/08/2018 18:51

You've made the same observation that I have done in the past. Sometimes this depends on the attitude of the employer. Have you seen the film "Office space" from 1999?

fourpawswhite · 04/08/2018 18:58

Yanbu. This has annoyed me for years.

When I bought into the partnership I am currently in (with all male partners) the partnership agreement didn't even mention flexible working or maternity. Male dominated at that level. So you either do as they do or don't bother.

The staff however, all female. We had one employee working school hours, on a contract for full time. This would be all very nice but her kids were grown up and having their own kids!! Nobody had ever sorted it out, and all the younger females without kids were picking up the slack, and on less pay as "junior" staff.

SuperSuperSuper · 04/08/2018 18:58

I have children but I agree.

I wouldn't let this rota business slide, OP. It's grossly unfair.

OttilieKnackered · 04/08/2018 19:04

School pick up time is no excuse. Most working parents pay for childcare on take on part time hours to accommodate this. It’s not up to the employer to fuck everyone else over to ensure someone can pick their kids up every day.

Emergencies are different, obviously.

GreenMeerkat · 04/08/2018 19:29

YANBU, I'd be irritated too.

However, a lot of companies now have to allow for flexibility and parental leave as it's the law. So they are probably over compensating a bit. Still, not fair on you though!

ilovesooty · 04/08/2018 21:02

No it isn't fair on you. One of my team has a young child and he's been exempted from the one night a week late shift rota that all the rest of us are expected to do. We all get on well so no one has said anything but it isn't really fair in my opinion.

BuffysFavouriteStake · 04/08/2018 21:19

YANBU. Not so much (but still some) in current job, but previously - childless workers were unable to take their holiday time during school hols, as we needed to cover those with kids Hmm Requests for leave at the same time were automatically granted to the parents, without any consideration of the circumstances, etc.

At a previous job, when told I couldn't take the day off (with advance notice) because dpet was having an operation and required constant care, I told them it was childcare...

FrangipaniBlue · 04/08/2018 21:35

YANBU at all, I used to work somewhere that gave parents first pick of holidays, those without children had to book theirs around them.

At the time we had no DS and it meant that I never got Christmas off Angry

AmICrazyorWhat2 · 04/08/2018 21:39

YANBU, but I've noticed that some people expect their colleagues to accommodate their life choices!

My DH is dealing with this at work right now - one of his team had a baby last year (both she and her DH work full-time in very well-paid jobs) and she's constantly having unscheduled half or full days off for baby-related reasons.

My DH has been v. nice about it, but the truth is, they need to either pay for more adequate childcare (the nursery they use seems to close for the slightest reason) or revise their work schedules.

I wonder if my DH has ever mentioned that I work part-time simply so we don't have childcare issues...you can't have everything!

StealthPolarBear · 04/08/2018 21:41

"However, a lot of companies now have to allow for flexibility and parental leave as it's the law. So they are probably over compensating a bit"
Parental leave is the law but is taken in one chunk in the child's first few years. Flexibility is not the law.