to be fed up of the attitudes towards women without children

[heuiwp]

NC. I realise MN may not be the ideal audience for this, but let me say this isn't a dig or jealously at working mums. It's more a rant about bosses and the attitude towards women who don't have kids.

Everywhere I've worked, bosses seem to think if you don't have children, you don't have commitments or a life. They think you're the one they can ask to stay late, do overtime, go to conferences etc etc, as you don't have kids to go home to.

AIBU to think this is bloody unfair? Even if we don't have kids, that doesn't mean we want to be slaves to the job with no work/life balance. It seems if you have children you're allowed to put your life first, but if you don't, you have to put your work first without question.

My employer is introducing a new shift system, and the working mums have been granted all the 'nice' shifts, whereas us without children have been given the more unsociable ones. It winds me up.I have a partner, hobbies, things to do outside of work too.

And please don't say 'have kids then'. I would if I could, but regardless, I'm fed up of the way people think childless women have no lives.

Employers are more likely to employ people without children because they are flexible compared to mums

Actually if you're a woman of child-bearing age you're just as likely to be discriminated against by employers anyway because they're worried you will get pregnant and then go on mat leave. So you doubly lose out!

Omg ! Stop moaning ! Employers are more likely to employ people without children because they are flexible compared to mums . You are an employers dream !

Yeah! Who gives a shit if you'd always wanted children and for whatever reason weren't able to have them! You're an employer's dream so you should stop moaning! Fuck you and your dreams!

Mr spock did you read the rest of that sentence?

Yes. It’s unfair to disabled people, but the answer is not to be equally unfair to pregnant women.

I have a disability and children, fwiw.

Jordan Peterson says hire middle aged mums returning to the workplace after a gap as they'll be so grateful for the opportunity they'll work really hard and they'll let you take credit for their ideas and work. Depressing. But I don't think employers do that. They hire YOUNG over OLD. Even if you walk in there and say you've four young kids and no clue who's going to mind them yet, they will still pick the 30 something over the 50 something

I agree but I do think you unfairly represented that poster. I think her point was same should apply for people with disabilities, not that it shouldn't apply for pregnant women

MrSpock the whole post there gives the context. You only quoted half of it.

If you don’t have children, MN believe you:

- go away at weekends to foreign cities
- stay in bed for hours
- go clubbing, even if you’re fifty odd
- go to galleries and museums
- travel the world

We do

@sweetcarrielynne. That's awful. I hope you left that employer and made it clear why you were leaving.

I refuse to accept being treated as a second class citizen because I don't have children. I expect my employer to treat annual leave requests and flexible working requests equally irrespective of whether children are involved or not. Paid parental leave also pisses me off because I am not entitled to paid leave to care for a disabled parent.

Yanbu. I don't have children sadly but I'm lucky to have an employer who allows me time off when I request it. We are allowed 3 requests a month.

Also we have to work Xmas day & New Year's Day alternative years whether or not we have children- that way it's fair on everyone.

We all leave work at the same time generally.

I have MH problems & Occupational health have requested 'reasonable adjustments' for my shifts which my manager has followed.

My new manager has DC but is very understanding.

I do realise I'm very lucky at present though.

There was a thread on here last year about covering the Christmas period. One colleague had had the last couple of Christmases off but was kicking off about working that one. We were cheering when the OP won her appeal to spend possibly the last Christmas with her grandmother.

The entitled one threatened to go off sick. Never did find out what happened in the end.

My point is that it should be a fair allocation DC or no D.

I'm the only one in my office who has recently had young children. Near as I can tell, I work harder than the others, certainly more productive.

I don't resent anyone for it. Everyone does what they find they can.

At our work (university) you can ask for reasonable adjustments and flexible hours for any reason (e.g. caring, children, disabilities).

This annoys the life out of me. DH’s sister works in a place that does this and she gets the shitty end of the stick in her workplace because she’s the only child free one. She nearly didn’t get to come on holiday with us this year despite putting the request in two YEARS ago (MIL, FIL & DH all have ‘big’ birthdays) because school holiday dates are allocated on a “need” basis by her employer. She’s only getting to come because she basically told them she was either going on the holiday or she was resigning as she’s had enough.

YANBU. One of the things I love about my job is that neither of the managers have children, or plan to, and everyone is treated absolutely equally - no preferential treatment for parents at all. We do actually tend to sort between ourselves so the parents can get time off in school hols etc, but it’s completely up to us to do that, it isn’t expected. After years of never getting Christmas off, having to always do the overtime etc as I don’t have children it is wonderful.

Yanbu and I have two DC and for a time was a single mum

I think there's a difference between having pregnancy related sickness not counted and after the birth

Pregnancy related sickness could be seen as other long term conditions and is temporary and unlikely to be a pattern of behaviour that will continue

For a long time I was senior management and was hugely annoyed when I would have other working mum's try to manipulate me for extra time off "because I know what it's like having kids" yea I do , I also went to the ends of the earth to ensure it didn't affect my job

Emergencies are different because I would argue if your partner ended up in hospital you would need time off just as I would if one of my DC were in hospital

But day to day childcare it's my responsibility to manage and there was nothing more irritating than when I got a blank faced mum simply saying "but I need to get the kids at school finish "as if it was a right when in face so did I but I organised childcare

The sad thing is this is about scared employers and entitled people...not all mum's expect special treatment ,like most things it is the entitled few that make it seem like the rest of us are the same

I don't countenance e argument "oh well you can go away for the weekend,or have term time holidays etc etc"
Yes so could I if I hadn't had children...but I chose to have my DC ...that means sacrifice...it doesn't make it ok to whinge and expect everyone to pick up my slack

My choice my responsibility

It creates resentment when parents get priority. A lot of the older working mothers will have done their time either sorting childcare or taking a financial hit staying at home and won't appreciate their colleagues entitlement.

Totally agree - the most annoying one is the expectation that women without children should automatically cover Christmas. Christmas is a time for family yes, but I have a DH, parents, siblings, in-laws, all of whom are family and I would like to spend some time with!

The Christmas one absolutely fucks me off. Even more so when some twat pipes up with 'oh but surely people without kids would rather have NYE off'. ARGH.

I work in a shift environment. There are a few women who requested family friendly hours and were granted them. I'll be honest, I don't think it's fair. We get paid very well for what we do and part of that is the understanding that the shifts are antisocial and have a big affect on your social life and health. I think if people in my workplace want to have fixed shifts they should accept a pay reduction too, which is what some other companies in my sector do.

OP, YANBU and you should get your union involved, if you have one.

I had my first Christmas off last year for 14 years. There was a short staff day in 27th and the one entitled twat mumsaud either me or another guy should do it as she wants the whole week off with her family. I have a DH i’d like to be with.

Surely people without children spend Nye drinking at all night raves? Even if for the rest of the year you enjoy gardening and an early night :o

Where I work all the women in the most senior positions are the women who either don’t have children or they have children but they’re older, say 12+.

The hours these women work and the stress they’re under is pretty ghastly as I know for a fact that with two young children at home, their role is one I’d never fancy being in.

The majority of the women I work with who have young children work on reduced hours or set shift patterns to accommodate childcare and in most instances the senior positions at work require full time workers with pretty much 24:7 flexibility.

My rise in my career has undoubtedly been put on hold because I’ve had children. It is pretty crap to see all the childfree women climb the ladder whilst the rest of us cut our hours to spend time with our children but it’s the path we chose I guess.

It is pretty crap to see all the childfree women climb the ladder whilst the rest of us cut our hours to spend time with our children but it’s the path we chose I guess.

Not all those women will necessarily be child free by choice

Some of them may well have given anything to be in your place and had children to have been able to cut hours to spend time with

You may have chosen your path but they may not have chosen theirs

YaLoVeras Re. Hiring younger workers over middle-aged ones.

I'm don't think this is always the case. My employers recently hired a 62 year old out of a shortlist of interviewees, all of whom were considerably younger. Obviously her experience and enthusiasm counted for something - I'm just getting to know her and she's definitely committed to her job.

My last workplace was pathetic in it's treatment of people with children vs without. Colleagues refused to do any shift work at all and were allowed not to do it because of their precious children despite them being in school already. Which meant that the few people who didn't have kids had to do it all. FFS don't take a job in a hospital if you don't want to do shifts. And I mean complete inflexibility, refused to do weekends even though husbands worked Mon-fri 9am-5pm because "who will look after the children" (oh I don't know maybe your husband??), refused to do on call as "I can't leave my kids alone in the night" even though husband would be at home and kicked up a massive stink if they had to work Xmas etc as "my children will miss me!"

Honestly.