to be fed up of the attitudes towards women without children

[heuiwp]

NC. I realise MN may not be the ideal audience for this, but let me say this isn't a dig or jealously at working mums. It's more a rant about bosses and the attitude towards women who don't have kids.

Everywhere I've worked, bosses seem to think if you don't have children, you don't have commitments or a life. They think you're the one they can ask to stay late, do overtime, go to conferences etc etc, as you don't have kids to go home to.

AIBU to think this is bloody unfair? Even if we don't have kids, that doesn't mean we want to be slaves to the job with no work/life balance. It seems if you have children you're allowed to put your life first, but if you don't, you have to put your work first without question.

My employer is introducing a new shift system, and the working mums have been granted all the 'nice' shifts, whereas us without children have been given the more unsociable ones. It winds me up.I have a partner, hobbies, things to do outside of work too.

And please don't say 'have kids then'. I would if I could, but regardless, I'm fed up of the way people think childless women have no lives.

You havent progressed. Your needs are bring completely ignored. If I understand correctly, you are childless by circumstance rather then by choice. It sounds as if a company/career change would be good. Is that possible?

I had to put my put down very hard at a previous job. Just because you don’t have children doesn’t mean you don’t have family at festive times! I laid it on thick and got to spend Christmas with my Granny after all.

All the time I didn’t have dcs,I liked that because I had a job I liked, I got better bonuses and then I got promoted.

So could you not find a job you enjoy and then it wouldn’t be so much of an issue.

@Mummyoflittledragon you are ignoring the fact that it doesn't matter whether the OP is childless by choice or not. A good employer doesn't automatically give all the sociable shifts to mothers with children as anyone now can have a good reason to require flexible working. Also some mothers I know in the past have delibrately chosen to work non-sociable hours as they have another parent to provide childcare.

If you as an employer you only give a certain group flexible working a them you open yourself up for discriminate claims or simply lose staff like @Bluerose66 employer. Both are expensive.

Yanbu. I don't think any employer should assume that anyone can drop everything to come into work. If there are unsociable shifts to be covered then these should be done by everyone on a rota or there should be a benefit attached to them, like a higher rate of pay or time in lieu.

Just place marking. I said at work, in a conversation about parenthood, that i would remind my daughter that she doesnt have to have children, that it is not a magic formula to be fulfilled and that there are other ways. I was shocked by the resctions to what i thought was a logical straightforward piece of advice.

I had the other side of this. A fast paced business who wouldn’t let me take time off when my son was taken by ambulance to hospital and said “get someone else to look after him.”

It’s not fair to assume those without kids don’t have lives but it IS hard for parents to fit in work around kids.

This is why I think it’s easier to do part time as a parent tbh. Full time is too difficult.

@BlueBug45
Did I say the employer should treat childless women differently? No. The point is this will feel even more personal to op precisely because she can’t have children.

YANBU. I used to get so cross when people asked why I went away in school holidays (luckily never tried to stop me)...err...that would be because DH is a teacher.

But the shift thing is beyond that...talk to HR if you have one. Shift of company time?!

@MrSpock unless your job involves life and death situations then your employer are awful.

@Mummyoflittledragon the way you phrased your posts it made it look like you thought it was acceptable for the employer to do that. I'm glad you are saying it isn't.

Also I'm aware carers of adults and those with disabilities have it harder as while the majority of kids become more independent as they get older, these people don't.

Can't you turn this to your advantage. Eg Boss, I am doing x shift but it's very difficult with the bus times/dog walker or give no reason, could I get away early on / start early on / work every Sat and get X day off/ start late and miss the traffic?
I worked in a mostly female environment and there were no allowances as too difficult to suit everyone.

@zzzzz

unless your job involves life and death situations then your employer are awful.

It was an office. I had to leave because they absolutely refused to let me have any time with my then 2 year old DS who was incredibly poorly.

@GeorgeIII it's shift work.

The only reasonable way to sort out shift work is either to allow some people days they don't work due to caring responsibilities so it applies equally to men and women as per the law, or make everyone taking the job work all shifts.

YANBU. In my old firm, people with children were prioritised for booking holidays and it could be very unfair. I was asked to cancel annual leave I'd booked in July for a family holiday because a colleague of mine couldn't get childcare for that week. I refused and they then changed the system so that those of us who didn't have kids had to clear our annual leave with our colleagues who were parents (rather than just our supervisors) before we could book it.

Similarly at Christmas they would circulate a table so people could book off time between Christmas and new year (a limited number of people could be off on any given day) and colleagues who were parents had their requests dealt with a week before the table was circulated to anyone else.

I don't think parents get accommodated enough in many workplaces, but equally it is a parent's choice to have kids and I don't think it automatically entitles them to have non-parent colleagues disadvantaged to accommodate them.

Yanbu. The parents (it is both men and women at my work) absolutely take the piss - leaving early, arriving late, tailor-made hours when requesting PT whereas all others have to take what they get. I am a parent and understand childcare issues etc but some people seem to use it as their golden ticket to working hours that suit them rather than the hours they are contracted for!

@BlueBug45
That certainly wasn’t my intention as I said ops needs were being ignored and it seems like it may be time to re-evaluate her place in the company / start looking for work somewhere, where her skills are appreciated.

Not the same but it's a bit like when you're a non smoker like myself and almost everywhere I've worked smokers get extra breaks so they can smoke outside but I had to carry on working.

If you don’t have children, MN believe you:

• go away at weekends to foreign cities
• stay in bed for hours
• go clubbing, even if you’re fifty odd
• go to galleries and museums
• travel the world

". I refused and they then changed the system so that those of us who didn't have kids had to clear our annual leave with our colleagues who were parents (rather than just our supervisors) before we could book it."

In some cases what your employers are doing is illegal. Stop blaming your co workers for your boss being a dick.

YANBU at all, OP. The number of times I've been asked to change booked annual leave so someone could go somewhere with their kids...well, I lost count.

Emergencies aside, there should be no special treatment. It also used to upset me that pregnant women didn't have any sickness absence counted against them, whereas it was counted against disabled people, in my last workplace at least. It's too open to abuse.

Omg ! Stop moaning ! Employers are more likely to employ people without children because they are flexible compared to mums . You are an employers dream ! Stop moaning !At least you have a job !

It also used to upset me that pregnant women didn't have any sickness absence counted against them