To cut off my adult son, make him homeless and stop facilitating access to his DC's

[Onestepbeyondtheedge]

I am a long time member and have name changed for this.

I have five DC's all adults, eldest three have DC of their own. Eldest son has messed up over and over again, he's 37 has four DC, eldest he has no contact with, two 8 & 7 from long term relationship who live close to us and he has been in their lives from day one but is at times unreliable and let's them down separated from their dm for five years, youngest is almost 1, dm is 21 immature, needy and prone to drama.
I have always been supportive to DS, he was a difficult teenager, drank and took drugs from an early age, not helped by going into an industry where drinking and drug taking are rife. I felt guilty because I split from his f, ds has always blamed me for his problems.
When he split with his long term partner five years ago I paid for rehab/counselling, offered him a job opportunity and allowed him to move into a property I owned.
He chose to stay in his original profession but made a huge effort with the dc, got into a steady relationship with the mother of his youngest dc but gradually fell into a pattern of binge drinking, not going to AA meetings, not paying rent, letting dc down etc etc.
Two years ago he asked for help, he was trying to end his relationship but she kept threatening suicide, begging to come back etc.
He moved home, we went on holiday and on our return his oh had also moved in and was pregnant. He didn't want the baby, she did and again they both moved into one of my properties as tennants. The baby arrived and four months later she left, she has relied on him a lot for babysitting so that she can go out and recently to go to work.
He owes me thousands of pounds in rent, loans and handouts we (me and DH of 20yr) recently took him and the dcs on holiday, on return he disappeared and it has become apparent that he got drunk, lost his job and I don't have a clue where he is.
I can't do this anymore, we had already agreed that he would move out of our home this month but both mothers have said he can't have dcs overnight unless it's here which we agreed to.
AIBU to go back on this agreement and kick him out because I can't cope with the stress anymore, he pays for nothing when he's here and expects my carers (I'm disabled) to clean up after him, do his washing, he takes food without asking, doesn't buy nappies, milk or food for the bloody cat he gave to eldest dc for her birthday which has ended up in my house.
I feel absolutely broken, apparently he is calling in later to collect some stuff which usually means he wants money.
I'm absolutely broken by him - the other four dc all have jobs, homes etc even the youngest who has a debilitating health condition lives independently.
We will continue to have the eldest dgc after school once a week and for regular sleepovers and already help out with childcare one day a week for the baby and will have him overnight when he is a little older.
It would be interesting to get some independent views/criticism.

I am so sorry that you are in this situation but you are absolutely doing the right thing.

If you continue to facilitate him, nothing will ever change. You taking control of the parts you can take control of may still not change him, but that will be down to him.

The latest mother of his child is being pathetic and if that's the way she wants to play it then I'm afraid you'll just have to let her. I hope that she changes her mind, especially since you've helped her out so much, but if she's going to behave like a stroppy toddler as well then she needs to be treated as you would treat a stroppy toddler. I''m sure she'll change her mind soon enough when she needs someone to have the baby when she's too out of it herself!

My MIL should have taken a harder line with my BIL when he was younger - she didn't, and now she has to actually live with him to prevent him getting drunk and abusing the neighbours, who call the police on him and have got him jail time twice. He has a desperate sense of entitlement and thinks he should have the world for nothing; and MIL now has to deal with a 44 yo man-toddler who thinks everyone owes him something. Thankfully he has no children!
Not saying your son is exactly like that, but he doesn't sound an awful lot different in effect, even if his attitude is not the same.

Good luck - it's a tough path you've to travel now and I hope that it pays out in the end.

I’m going to sound incredibly cruel, but in your shoes I’d call social services and inform them your grandchild has been dumped on your doorstep despite the fact that your son isn’t there to look after him and you can’t as you are disabled.

Both your son and his on/off partner need to step up, they had a child and now they need to take responsibility. That baby needs a social worker and a parenting assessment done on whichever of the 2 of them is going to look after it.

It’s not your carers job to babysit. It’s not acceptable for a baby to be treated like pass the parcel. They are adults now, the baby needs looking after properly.

Oh and get the cat rehoused if you want/need to.

Show them both you won’t be walked all over.

Op I am so sorry you are in this position. You have clearly tried to act in as selfless a way as possible, I think you feel guilty for his sad start in life but it isn’t your fault, it is the fault of his shitty father.
It is about time your son started thinking of you, frankly. You are late 50s, 60 ? So not elderly, but as your health isn’t great you need to be able to prioritise yourself and have a bit of tlc from your family. I really felt for you with your post about the baby being dumped on you. You are being bullied and manipulated still. Have a look at the Freedom Programme, I think that would help you.
Re your feckless son, I just don’t know what to suggest that could be helpful. I agree with pps that it is completely reasonable to stop shoring him up so much, and I think that is possible while still giving love and affection.
for you op.

I love animals and hate that people discard them as though they are no more than a toy or toaster. But that cat needs to go.

And I know you, your DH and the parents of your DS ex are trying to support her but it's obviously not enough. What if she drinks to excess and he's ill in the night and she doesn't wake up? What if she starts to leave him unattended? What if one of her one night stands whilst she is drunk hurts this child? It is not a suitable environment for the child to be in at all. You are not capable of looking after the child and this is harming your own health. I'm really sorry to hear of your health problems but what is going to happen if something happens to you? Or her parents? You NEED to report all this to social services! NOW! Please please, please! My own mother reported my sister's DC to social services, she was worried about her then partner and my sisters care of them. SS assessed the situation, supported my sister and she was able to turn things around. They will do everything to keep the baby with his mum, but unfortunatly the best thing might be to have the child placed in a foster home or even adopted. You DS isn't in the right place to care for yet another child, and you have said the mother regrets having the child and has just dumped the baby with you knowing you cannot care for it.

Ok I agree that you need the SS involved with your last dgc.

His/her mum is leaving that child with you knowing you can’t look after them on your own! What abiutbthe safety to the child, wo talking about the fact YOU are missing VERY IMPORTANT appointments to look after your own health.

The mum needs supports from other services (and a big telling off tbh)

As for telling you can’t leave the child with your ds.... how is your ds suppose to step up and be involved in his child life if he isn’t allowed to by the mum??

Thank you, dgc has been bathed, dressed and fed and is now having a nap. I have contacted her parents and they are five hours away, I've told them to come back or I will have no choice but to phone social services, ds is on his way back from work to care for him but I've told him that dgc staying overnight is out of the question.
I've done my bit but it's involved me missing an appointment for cancer treatment, I know his ex is young but at her age I had three dc and a mortgage, she wanted a baby but would appear to not want a toddler.

That poor baby needs the involvement of SS. It shouldn’t be a threat or a punishment to contact them, her mother is neglecting her child and behaving in an appalling fashion, enabled, sorry to say by both yourself and her parents.

Please start to prioritise your own health and leave the experts to do their bit and as for your son, enough is enough. Send him on his way and continue to be a grandparent to his dc. He’s a taker. Perhaps he’s inherited his own fathers’s personality traits rather than been a victim of the trauma. Maybe a mix of the two but everyone has to own their own behaviour and stop excusing crap on the grounds of their past experiences.

You are right in finally putting your foot down, OP, what a nightmare for you having to deal with all this from a grown man. And I second the PPs who say - he needs to stop fathering children who will no doubt then have to be subsidised by the taxpayer, while he goes on to the next lot. He's not a teenager, and needs to take some responsibility and seems this would be a good place to start. Then he can address the issues with the children he already has and get himself sorted out. Must be horrendous for you still dealing with this when your son is at this age.

I would phone Ss as she pbviously doesnt give a toss about the poor child.
Both you and her parents are doing your best but when you are not there the child is in danger due to her behaviour. It canmot continue. Either your son gets a grip and steps up or that child is going to.have a horrendous childhood from his mothers neglect.
You cannot fix them both and you cannot be responsible for the child. You need to.put yourself first from now on and if she kicks off she only has herself to blame. Ss will do whats best for the child and if your son has been having him for days at a time and stepping in so she can go put on the lash they will not stpp him seing his child but he needs to get his act together and prove he can be that parent all the time.

Can any if your other adult kids not have strong words with your ds and tell him how this is all affecting you and to get his shit together?

Take care of you let them get on with it. Tell them all you are done with it all. You are too ill to cope amy more.

And get rid of the cat😉 what a thoughtless stupid thing for your ds to do in someone elses house.

OP I might be right off the mark here so please feel free to ignore me but what I sense off your posts is that you sort of shuttle between being angry at him and wanting to kick him out, have back rent paid back etc and then feeling sorry for him/the ex GF/the baby/the cat and then taking on all of the work and giving them money/rent free flats etc. It feels as if you equate liking them/him with doing everything for them, and kicking him out etc you equate with not liking him and being angry at him.

It all sounds very unboundaried, like you get guilted into doing stuff for him or you end up being the carer by default. I think if you do want to ever help him with the practicalities of life (like for example if you were willing, in time, to let him meet his kids at your house) you need to practise enforcing your boundaries - get used to saying no to him. And with your background (I say this because I also experienced abuse in childhood, and also have trouble with boundaries) that will be hard to do. You're used to - one person in the house is in a bad mood, everyone is in a bad mood, everyone has to drop everything and make the bad mood go away, right? It feels incredibly awkward to say "no, sorry, I'm not doing that for you."
Because boundaries are likely to be hard, I think that even if you do want to eventually give him some help, it is a really good idea for you right now to drop all help, kick him out, let him fend for himself. For his sake, because he isn't going to change until he has motivation to change and right now he doesn't. And for your sake, because it's not easy to break the habits of a lifetime so if you don't want to find yourself getting pulled back in to doing everything for everyone, the best way is to make a clean break.

I've read the whole thread with interest because I have a nearly 40 year old DB with similar problems and a similarly chaotic life. It has absolutely broken my parents, who have very different views on how to deal with him. He bounces back home after every new disaster (about once a fortnight), has been in and out of court, banned from driving (drink driving) twice. DM does everything she can to mitigate the consequences of his behaviour because she's afraid he'll lose his job and that would result in a downward spiral he would never come out of. She also fears that if she refused to take him in every time his DP throws him out, he would become homeless and would end up dead or in prison.

DF has had enough and more or less washed his hands of DB. It pisses him off that DM does so much. Their relationship is strained as a result.

It's an insoluble problem, OP, and I think you've had some harsh responses on here. Unfortunately some people do have traumatic childhood experiences, as your DC have (my DB didn't, that we know of, and refuses any counselling, AA, or similar). By age 40, if he refuses to do the work to deal with his childhood trauma, is it really ok to expect the people around him to pick up the pieces all the time? I think not. But I can understand why you are loath to cut the support. Unfortunately it sounds as though losing overnight contact with his DC might be the catalyst he needs to change his behaviour, as that is something genuinely precious to him.

Your dgs's mum sounds like a caricature. Like, REALLY?

I'm also going to agree with @toomuchtooold. You need to start putting your own personal boundaries in place - did you have therapy that touched on this?

If we don't have personal boundaries people in our lives will feel they don't know where they stand with you, and will then push to find out. You've been pushed very far with your DS (possibly due to guilt?) but it means that he hasn't learnt to stand on his own two feet. If he doesn't want to change, you can't make him. He has to find his own way, to be able to learn - you stepping in stops him learning that lesson.

So I'm glad you've got to the point where you've recognised you need to stop. Maybe take some time with your DH and decide what it is you will and will not do, to prioritise your own wellbeing, and tell the family from there with your DH backing you up.

The good news - your DS is working and earning, This is a good step to build on, he can do it, so remind him of his successes from time to time. Change is hard, some people prefer the "devil you know" as they know what is coming, rather than the unknown, but the unknown can be positive and good. Unfortunately when you have a negative outlook on life people can think the unknown is just full of awful stuff they don't have the energy to deal with, so they stay stuck.

As for DGC, is someone with you for bathing etc? Or did you struggle by yourself to do it all?

Thank you everyone for the constructive suggestions, dgcs mum has gone on a long weekend to Spain which was arranged some time ago and funded by her parents, I'm livid as they didn't even stop to ask what was happening to dgc while she was away. They are fully aware that ds has just had 10 days off work to take him on holiday with us so obviously couldn't take more time off work.
Other grandparents are going to come home and take dgc back on holiday with them. I have spoken to the HV who I know and alerted her as to what's going on.

The suggestions about lack of boundaries is interesting as I grew up in a home with none at all, my parents were hippies and as kids we could do whatever we wanted to, go to school, stay at home, wander the streets etc.

I've had years of counselling for myself and certainly recognise what you're saying.

I would never put dgc at risk in any way, I have someone with me during daytime hours so he is safe, loved, cherished and nurtured.
I'm going to find it very difficult to hand him over to his other gps and wish I could keep him here with me.

ds is contrite, understands why I'm doing what I'm doing and agrees that he needs to get his shit together. He has never been in trouble with the police but I do fear that he will either end up in prison or dead.

Thank you for the support.

Dgc has gone with his other dgm who felt it appropriate to shout and swear at ds for not having another four days off work to care for dgc.
Ds kept his cool and pointed out that if he takes more time off he will likely be unable to pay child support for any of the children.
It's such a mess.

It's such a mess.

Repeat after me: IT'S NOT MY MESS.
Stop babying a 37 years old adult. He's about 20 years late growing up, stop enabling him.
Every time you give in, you encourage him to not be responsible for his own life.

I have not read the full thread but wow OP. You have had so much to deal with from your adult DC.

YANBU to no longer save him. He needs to hit rock bottom and you need to be able to live your life without the stress of constantly picking up the slack for his crap.

Granted depression, low self esteem could all be reasons for his actions, but he is making these choices everyday, You have tried and cant change him. I would honestly move on from one of my DC under these circumstances. If you can turn your help towards the GC. Some people do not want to be helped, Sometimes you have to give up the fight.

He may not come back from rock bottom and may get worse but he will probably do it with you by his side. You have done your best I am sorry a Lady that has done well in life is been made to feel so miserable, Take control I hope it gets better for you and your family.

tilda thanks, I know it's not my mess it just breaks my heart for dgc and I wish the other gps could sit down and have a civil conversation with us about how best to support his dm but every time I see them it's because of a drama.
Ds would have him permanently in a heartbeat but has no home and works unsocial hours, often finishing after 11pm. When he is caring for his dc he never drinks or goes out and is totally devoted to them, it's one of his positive traits.
We have talked today and he accepts that I have to kick him out and cut off any form of financial support. I have suggested he goes to the GP and asks for a referral for counselling.
He will see the older two children on Sunday and then they go on holiday with their dm until the end of August so it gives him some time to take some positive steps.
I've asked him why he drinks and he says he does it because he can't deal with his emotions and what's going on in his head.
I truly don't know what to say to him.

I caught up on the thread. Oh OP it is awful. It is not your mess and your health needs to be your priority. You are taking the right steps but please keep walking away, shut your door. The opportunity of change you have given your DS with housing and everything else and he has ruined it. Please no more

Tomatoes thanks, I need to keep hearing that I'm doing the right thing. I can't do it anymore, I hadn't realised until our holiday how much it has affected my relationship with my other dcs, they need and deserve some quality time with me, without me constantly worrying about ds.
My eldest told me that they all feel that he is my favourite because of the time and energy that has gone into him and his problems. It was hard to hear but I can see exactly what she means.

It's not your job to sort out his messes any more.

Ds would have him permanently in a heartbeat but has no home and works unsocial hours, often finishing after 11pm.
If he "would have him permanently in a heartbeat" then why hasn't he done it yet? Plenty of people manage it, renting a home, using childcare.

Your eldest is right. This is very unfair to your other children - they went through the same thing yet he gets so much more of your attention and resources. Do you worry constantly about them? Do you minimise their bad choices the way you do his?

BTW do you worry about his eldest child? Why doesn't he have any contact with them (teenager or even possibly young adult now)? You don't have to write it here, just some food for thought. You wrote:
He didn't have a vasectomy because he always hoped that one day he would be in a position to settle in a relationship and provide a stable family unit for his dc and hadn't discounted the possibility of another child.
Do you really see him settling any time soon if you continue enabling him?
He should concentrate on providing a stable family unit for his four existing children, not think of bringing yet another child into this world.

You are absolutely correct that my son is more than capable of controlling his own fertility, he was however in a relationship with someone who he thought he could trust completely.
He was in a relationship with a teenager. A girl that could be his child. Who "quickly became needy" because - surprise surprise - a girl barely out of school can lack the emotional maturity to deal with a man twice her age.

You keep treating him like a teenager. A very experienced teenager who knows exactly which buttons to push. Time to grow up.

I truly don't know what to say to him.

"Son, grow up. I'm done."

Tilda I started this thread for support in my decision to stop enabling my son, but thanks for reiterating my need to change things.

Why doesn't he have his youngest, because it would stop him earning money to support his children. It's not possible for him to work sociable, childcare friendly hours, support himself, pay child support and survive. Today he took the afternoon off to care for dgc, went back to work and finished at 11:30pm tomorrow he has to be at work for 9am and will finish after 11:00pm. He does this five days a week and has his children the other two days. If he works split shifts he collects his dc from school, he also stays with youngest dgc overnight an additional two nights a week so that his ex can go out, he usually takes over from her younger brother after he has worked.

He doesn't see his eldest dc because the dm met someone and moved abroad, he has made many attempts to trace them, so have we. Until the day they disappeared she was cared for by me 2 days a week and spent 2 days with ds. It broke all of our hearts when they left, we didn't know it was going to happen, didn't get a chance to say goodbye and have no idea where they are.

The dm of his youngest was19 when she started dating him, 21 when she got pregnant. As you have pointed out he was an adult, how was I supposed to influence or control his behaviour? Her parents knew about the relationship long before I did but did nothing to try and put an end to it. As soon as I found out I went to see them, they already knew, they also knew about my son's other children and his addiction issues.

As for my other dc, you know nothing about them or me other than my posts here, yes I could devote more time to them. My eldest lives abroad so it's difficult to spend time with her, we speak on the phone at least twice a week, I Skype most days and read my dgc bedtime stories and listen to them read, I have ds3 who lives 20 miles away he and his oh come for a meal twice a week, I have a regular lunch date with him once a month. Ds2 is three hours away, we speak or FaceTime most days they come for a weekend every six weeks, we visit them as often as we can. Youngest dd who despite living with a debilitating health condition holds down a high powered job, she lives in a home provided by us and perfectly set up for me to be able to spend time there when she needs my help and support. We visit frequently and enjoy weekends with her, we speak several times a day.
I also have dsc one of whom lives at home and another who visits several times a week, often sharing a meal with us.
We have helped all dcs and dsc through university and helped with deposits for houses or rent to them at below market price while they save.

Considering that I was genuinely a child when I was bullied into having my eldest dc, came from an abusive, dysfunctional family who were no support at all I think I've done my best for all the dcs and dgc. I'm now trying to do the right thing for my ds and his dcs.

YANBU about your DS.

I've just had the mum of youngest dgc on the phone telling me that if I don't let him stay here none of us are seeing dgc ever again.

She's bluffing. She needs your help too much and you need to get tough with her too.

If she's saying your DS can't see the baby and you won't either...I'd say "I'll miss DGS very much, but if that's your decision"

She's using the baby to manipulate things in her favour and she's irresponsible.

Your health comes first.

OP....you've tried hard and I'd say ignore the horrible posts lacking in sensitivity.

You had a rough start in life but seem to have done well for yourself...being financially secure and having a good DH now.

While being disabled and suffering ill health, you still provide a good amount of childcare for your DGC.

There's no doubt your DS's childhood has affected him more than the others. Or he's less able to cope. We're all have different levels of resilience. He's the eldest and also probably saw more abuse and remembers more than his siblings.