How could they do this?

[brizzledrizzle]

You're on the verge of losing everything - but you don’t understand why http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-42789610

This should not be allowed to happen, this is supposed to be a civilised country. How could they do this to somebody

becca

You do know PIP rearrange meetings as in bring them forward and they sometimes send the letter out so it arrives after the new appointment date right? You should of gone to the new date on you should of magically knew about it. Does not matter the letter informing you of the change came after the new date its your responsibility to know your appointment time and date ( even if we change it for 3 weeks earlier you are magically meant to know about it or psychically phone up every week to check they have not moved your appointment.

The sheer ignorance on this thread is actually quite alarming.

We have a system where a man can be refused benefits as his assessment was not completed due to his having a heart attack in the middle of it, where someone can be sanctioned for missing a signing on appointment as they were at a job interview that they told the DWP about, where it is thought reasonable to withhold a month's income as a punishment for being a few minutes late for an appointment, where is is not understood that a street homeless individual who hasn't even got guaranteed access to a toilet will struggle to evidence 30+ hours of jobsearch and sufficient applications for employment, where someone can be sanctioned for missing an appointment they did in fact attend, where someone without a driving license can be sanctioned for not following an advisor's direction to apply for a driving job... It simply is not a case of "well if you have a reasonable excuse phone and tell them and it will all be fine".

Hont Sorry yes, it's Aug now and I started this in June. No face to face and 4 weeks between sending form and getting confirmation. Money starting in another 4 weeks. I was encouraging another poster to apply because the process was putting her off as it did me. I do think it is important that people actually apply don't you?

The only family I was in contact with at the time was my dad, and he was the one who thought I was just pissed and fucked off when I blacked out. No chance I'd have asked him to ring.

I really struggle with these stories , I'm not doubting they happen however my own experience was so very different

I was on UC and in that time had a stroke, several occurrences of children being ill and one where I was stuck in solid traffic

I communicated with my work coach via the journal and had nothing but support

There were one or two hiccups with payments but I kept an eye and knew the dates so checked regularly ,when I put a note in asking it was always resolved

I've worked in social care a long time and I do have huge understanding that it's not so easy for some , however there are advocacy services and support offered

I get frustrated when you see lots of missed appointments and no communication and then the job centre staff are blamed

Of course there are wrong situations...noone in their right mind would consider a woman having a miscarriage an appropriate sanction but for every story like that I see an awful lot where people haven't kept to their end either

At the risk of being harsh (who am I kidding I have no problem being harsh) if I could communicate and ensure they were aware whilst being a single mum at the time ,having had a stroke that left me confused,unable to walk and aphasic for a short period....can not get sanctioned unless you get an asshole of a work coach ( I accept they exist but they certainly aren't all like that or even in the majority) then the claimant has to take personal responsibility

With all due respect Becca I think your circumstances are unique.

The advice and service needs to be correct and have consistency across the whole country. The computer systems need to be updated too.

However, there is a section of society who do play the system, and use ignorance as an excuse and it would be fool who says otherwise.

The system is horrendous. The worst thing is the complete lack of communication. I had my housing benefit completely stopped once due to their error. First I knew about it was when the rent couldn't go out. They were awful to deal with.

"Sorry yes, it's Aug now and I started this in June. No face to face and 4 weeks between sending form and getting confirmation. Money starting in another 4 weeks. I was encouraging another poster to apply because the process was putting her off as it did me. I do think it is important that people actually apply don't you?"

Yes, I think people should apply, but I think your case gives a VERY inaccurate impression of a normal PIP claim. For anyone applying with some sort of hard-to-prove or fluctuating condition then PIP is quite hard to claim. For the minority of applicants who, e.g. need a wheelchair at all times, then PIP can be straightforward because the descriptors will be easy to identify.

At the risk of being harsh

You spelt ignorant wrong.

Can you imagine if for example a tiny minority of woman serially shoplift that all woman now have to be escorted while shopping at there expense because some tiny amount of people (this case woman) steal.

No right is it? But its exactly what you are saying is fine...

However, there is a section of society who do play the system, and use ignorance as an excuse and it would be fool who says otherwise.

And because of that it’s ok that people in need are treated the way that Becca and others have been? Bollocks to that.

I’d rather that 50 people screwed the system (they’re not as common as the DM would have you believe btw) than one person was treated so appallingly.

Seriously that's your considered articulate intelligent response?

If you'd read my post you'll see that not only have I been on both sides , I have a higher than normal knowledge of social care

If you can't respond like a grown up toddler off and don't comment on my posts

I read your entire post. You are still being ignorant.

Hont And maybe the person I was advising has a straightforward case, it sounds like she does have a physical disability. So my experience is valid imo.

Yes, I think people should apply, but I think your case gives a VERY inaccurate impression of a normal PIP claim. For anyone applying with some sort of hard-to-prove or fluctuating condition then PIP is quite hard to claim. For the minority of applicants who, e.g. need a wheelchair at all times, then PIP can be straightforward because the descriptors will be easy to identify.

I phoned up to ask for a home visit, and was informed that they only do home visits for those that are bed bound. That doesn't make PIP straightforward.

Added to that those with fluctuating conditions that is the majority of mental health problems or people in chronic pain. Both the PIP and the ESA appeal process is long and hard, PIP especially has left us stressed and depressed to the point of nearly being sectioned at the start of the year, plus just when we thought we were getting somewhere my tribunal got postponed

"And maybe the person I was advising has a straightforward case, it sounds like she does have a physical disability. So my experience is valid imo."

Physical disability is not enough, it would have to be in the region of 'both legs amputated' to apply for PIP successfully with no assessment. Your experience is no more or less valid than anyone else's, but it is definitely a very atypical one.

I think you are mistaking my position Hont and I am actually stressed and hurt by that. I was helping a fellow poster. My sympathy, as my first post shows, is entirely with the vulnerable in this current system.

I'm put off applying for PIP, I've been newly diagnosed as borderline autistic, I don't need a carer or have mobility issues, but I'm utterly shit at interviews, and you can't teach me, because I find it difficult to learn anything. How do they assess that? A friend suggested I needed DH to remind me to do things, no I don't, I don't have fucking time to do the things he's nagging me about. Why the fuck doesn't he do them?

Gettingbackonmyfeet are you suggesting you avoided sanctions by recording info on your journal as a single parent suffering very debilitating effects of a stroke? If so I very much think we can do better. On your behalf and anyone else who finds themselves is such a difficult position, I expect better from a welfare system.

it's estimated that less than 1% of benefit is claimed fraudulently. A drop in the ocean compared to the amount of tax that is avoided, but interestingly you won't see that fact in the Daily Mail. Universal Credit is a cruel, inhumane harsh system. It requires all communication to be done online. It does not care if the claimant is IT illiterate, does not have access to the internet, has to travel miles by bus to a job centre or library when job centres and libraries are closing. it does not care if the claimant has full time caring responsibilities, claimant is still required to evidence 30+ hours of job searching per week. It does not care if claimant is severely disabled, has never worked, has been judged not fit for work by a doctor. All of this an be over ridden by an assessor. It does not care if you have a learning disability, have never budgeted monthly, have never been responsible for paying your own rent, you will be paid monthly and expected to cope. its a disgraceful system.

Benefits aren't that hard to claim, follow the rules and nobody gets sanctioned

The papers, blogs, forums, social media, are all FULL of examples such as the miscarriage one where people have been sanctioned for ridiculous reasons. There are whistleblower blogs and newspaper articles of staff who have worked on Universal Credit who say the system is not fit for purpose and they are very aware of the hardship they are causing people but are unable to be more helpful. Other DWP staff have made it clear that staff turnover is high, training is poor and frequently, more clued up members of the public are correctly telling them they have got something wrong.

If even one woman is sanctioned because she,issued an appointment whilst in hospital with a miscarriage, the system is not working. There is no way on earth that can be considered reasonable.

"I think you are mistaking my position Hont and I am actually stressed and hurt by that. I was helping a fellow poster. My sympathy, as my first post shows, is entirely with the vulnerable in this current system."

I don't think you were helping, to be honest. I do think your sympathy is with the vulnerable, but posting things like "I was awarded more than I expected to be. I'd heard the horror stories too but clearly it doesn't have to be a horrible process" is unhelpful because it paints an inaccurate picture of the process to someone who is worried about the process. You have had an very rare experience of the PIP process.

Hont I may have had a rare experience, I guess most people don't post about good experiences but unless someone actually applies they aren't going to get anything.

That story seems like a very long story of "its all someone elses fault". I didn't know I had to pay my rent from my UC, so I kept it all, and now I'm 10 grand in arrears. I didn't know I would have to pay that back, I thought they'd just say no bother. I didn't know I was supposed to look for a job while I was on jobseekers benefit, so its not fair I got sanctioned for it. I can't use a computer so I didn't turn up for my meetings. I'm spending large amounts of public money on a court case to get extra money to pay off the arrears I ran up by keeping the housing benefit.

There are some awful stories of true struggles and hardship because of the system. This is not one of them, and the emotive story telling of the middle aged man who tragically and surprisingly lost his elderly parents is not one of them.