to object to child maintenance payments if I can't afford them

[steve314]

Hello,

I'm new here and would appreciate some honest opinions about my situation.

I am a father of two boys aged 12 and 10. About 3 years ago I received an anonymous email from somebody who said they were a former work-make of my ex-partner. The email told me that she had started a new relationship. When we discussed it she said that it was true and suggested that we stay living together but have separate relationships. I didn't think that this would work and since she was unwilling to move out of the family home I concluded that I had to do so.

I moved out and rented a place big enough that our two boys could live part of each week with me and part at the family home. For the past 3 years they have lived with me weekends and some holidays and with their mother for the rest of the time. About 2 1/2 days of each week with me, on average. I pay rent (£700 per month) on my house and mortgage interest (£260 per month) on the family house. My ex partner pays £200 per month off the mortgage capital and receives child tax credit and child benefit. She started a self-employed business a few years ago but does not yet make a significant income from it. (Less than minimum wage.) As a result of this she also receives working tax credit.

A little while ago she decided to approach the Child Maintenance Service to seek monthly maintenance payments from me. First of all they told me that I should be paying about £500 per month. This was then reduced to about £360 per month. If I do not arrange to make the payments voluntarily they will be deducted from my salary.

My problem with this is that my take-home pay of just over £2000 per month means that I would not be able to pay it and also pay rent, mortgage interest, household expenses and all of the expenses of having a family that I pay now, such as food, clothes, birthdays, holidays, pocket money etc for the kids. I want to be stay involved in my children's lives like this. But if I'm force to pay this money I won't be able to afford to pay the rent so I won't have anywhere to live with my kids. Since I've not been living in the family home for 3 years my ex now strongly opposed me moving back in, so I can no longer live with them there.

I love supporting and caring for my kids both financially and emotionally but it seems to me that these forced payments work against that by forcing me to change my relationship with them from one in which I live with them and care for them part of the week to one in which I make anonymous payments of money each month.

Has anybody here, either a mother or a father, had a similar experience and come to a similar conclusion? Does anybody think I've got something wrong or am being unreasonable?

Thanks,

Steve

Did the court have the full picture of who currently pays what etc.? I can't believe they would ask you to pay if you don't have the means. You need to go back family court to get this properly sorted out.

You mention expenses of having a family and specify food, clothes, birthdays, holidays, pocket money etc for the kids. May I just clarify, so you make a contribution over and above the mortgage interest amount, or are you talking about your expenses when you have the children?
Because it seems to me that one way and another, you are already paying more than the amount the CMS says you should pay. If this is the case, can you pay the CMS amount and whatever extra it takes to pay the current amount? Sorry, I'm not sure how it all works, but surely they are not asking you to pay the new amount as well as what you already have to pay?

Yes I think you can say that the amount includes your part of the mortgage so I would be paying 400 a month all in

I would get legal advice on this,as she should sell the house to give you your share, anyway as you contribute £260 per month towards mortgage, it should be £100 extra to pay a month, which is probably do able, making cut backs else where

I suppose you could look at it this way- your ex-partner has your children an extra 2 days per week. So by paying £360 per month that is approx £45 per week per child. How much do you think your children cost to raise? Would you that is reasonable (so assuming your ex-partner matches your contribution)? If not, what do you think is reasonable?

So you take home about £2000 per month and have the kids 2-3 days per week (or it averages out to that).

According to the online calculator that's £63 per week. Which is about the same as the mortgage interest each month. I'd ask for a review or force the house sale tbh.

You're paying the mortgage? My friend doesn't get CM because her ex pays the mortgage on the house she lives in with the kids. I'm not sure if you're supposed to pay a chunk of money on top unless it would be to take it up to what you've been told to pay. You probably should get that clarified.

All the people telling him he’s out of order for querying the maintenance, did you read what he already pays in maintenance, mortgage interest, household costs for both houses????

Look any NRP who dodges their financial responsibilities is a scumbag, but this man isn’t dodging anything!

I think if you stop paying mortgage but house is not sold (i.e. expartner takes on all costs of mortgage) then you would need to seek legal advice- if she defaults it will affect both of you negatively in terms of credit scores and ability to get mortgage/renting in the future. You would need to have some legal agreement as to who would pay what, surely?

If she does take on paying 100% of the mortgage, you would need to work out what your share of current equity is as it wouldn't be right for her to pay mortgage costs for next 15/2- years and pay off mortgage and then you demand 1/2 the value of the house, for instance.

Surely you just contact your ex and (politely) inform her that now you are formally paying maintenance you will no longer be contributing separately to the mortgage. It is then up to her to manage the family finances on this basis. Why would you want to punish your children by forcing them to move as some PPs have suggested? I do think you both need some legal advice to clarify positions with regards to the house. Remember the children are the ones with no power in this and both parents should try to act in their best interest.

"Oh come on, Takfujimoto, think about all the other incidental costs each month that people have. Gas, electricity, water rates, council tax, phone bills, car costs, food ... I could go on ..."

Sorry, what I meant was that the OP has his own living expenses in his rented property and to keep himself going in his life in order to work in order to pay maintenance to his XW. Just because he earns £2K per month, doesn't mean that he's frittering away £1K per month. He needs that £1K to actually live and keep himself going.

Because I have no choice. I have no power to sell the house unless she agrees to it.

Who told you that?

XP?

Of course you can force a sale. Get thee to a solicitors and sort it out.

I’d consider defaulting on the mortgage. Give her the cash directly and state she needs to pay all the mortgage out of this money. I know it sounds scary but unless and until you force the issue, you’re going to be bled dry. The only other option is to move to a one bed place and sleep in the living room when you have the boys. But you’d better be in it for the long haul as you will be living like this for another 10 years. Talk about wanting her cake and eating it.

Can you go to court over this? Have you sought any legal advice? Because this would be the best thing to do. I know it will be expensive but perhaps a solicitor can tell you how to proceed. For the moment, perhaps just give the the £100.

As a pp said, I think you should be forcing a sale or pushing to get off the mortgage and take your 50% cash out to buy something yourself.

If you’re both only paying mortgage interest, does that mean you’re going to have a big deficit at the end of the mortgage? Houses aren’t going down in price or not over the long term at least. This is a ticking time bomb tbh.

She can't have it both ways. You will have to force sale via a solicitor. I would suggest speaking to her first.

Yes I think you can say that the amount includes your part of the mortgage so I would be paying 400 a month all in

No, you can't. One payment can't be used to cover two obligations, and CMS is separate to paying a mortgage.

If you pay the mortgage, you continue to accrue equity in the house. There have been posters on here who's exs have paid the mortgage in lieu of child support, and when the time comes to sell, have claimed that they're due 100% of the equity because the poster 'hasn't been contributing to the mortgage'.

I suggest either you have a conversation with your ex and explain that you'll be making the CMS payments, but will no longer be able to keep up mortgage payments on the house. Or (if you wish to continue accruing equity in the property), say that you'll pay CMS + half the mortgage (would that be affordable?).

Or offer to have the kids a couple more days every week and reduce the CMS payable?

Should have finished my train of thought and said that if you give her the CMS payments, there's nothing to stop her using that money to pay the mortgage. So she wouldn't have to default.

It wouldn't be the end of the world to default on the mortgage

This is utterly awful advice. Keeping credit up to date is essential from a ‘moving-on’ perspective and defaults cause lasting issues when needing credit or renting a new property.

OP - you have to pay maintenance. Talk to your ex. Try mediation if she is unwilling. It sounds like she can’t afford the house so it will need to be sold. It would appear you weren’t married but you can force the issue through the courts if necessary. Have a look on wiki once for advice.

Go and see a solicitor and get proper advice on the house sale.

The most important first issue is whether you are married or not as marriage utterly changes the financial side of relationships. I will assume you are not married.

The second question is how is the house held - tenant in common or joint tenants and in what shares. I will assume tenants in common with 50% shares each.

You are right it is hard to get a co-owner to sell although I know people how have got a court order forcing that. It would involve your children losing one of their two homes so not ideal. Does she have a family member who could come on the mortgage as guarantor such as her parents to get you off the mortgage and then have an agreement that when the youngest child is 18 or she cohabits again then the property is sold and you get your share assuming she cannot buy you out now?

Assuming the above is correct then .

The biggest issue here is one we hear time an again - whenever women go part time or stop work however easier that fees to everyone it is usually a mistake. I always worked full time so we didn't have these problems. She needs a kick up the bottom and to get a full time job and yo both may need to take a weekend job as well to keep both homes going. If she gave up the pointless self empoloyed work even if she loses tax credits by getting a full time job at least she would not be burdening tax payers.

Go and see a sollicitor.
Atm you have a system that is totally unfair on you. Whatever financial arrangements, incl child maintenance needs to be organised so that you can BOTH have a house and afford it.
And yes it will probably mean that your ex will have to move out of the family home and sell the house.
And as far as I know it does NOT mean you have to pay the mortgage if you can’t afford to.
But the best advice to go and see a sollicitor and organise finances re the divorce (I’m going to assume that you are not yet divorced and fianaces ahve been settled between you until now?)

I wasn't implying op was 'frittering' away anything, but as a family of 5 our outgoings aside from the mortgage is on average £480-£500, which is a drastic reduction since last year, we've changed gas/electric/food shop/phones/tv etc and saved a lot in outgoings.

So from my POV a family of 3 part time it's doable, it's something the op can look into either way 🤷‍♀️ however I don't think he should be paying the mortgage interest, which would help make the CMP easier.

Is your Ex approachable?

If @Parklives and @babyroobs are correct then you could be already paying £260 child maintenance in your contributions to their family home? Would the government accept that?

Have you had legal advice re the mortgage, and do you have a paper trail re the payments?

OK - just read @LannieDuck's post. Sigh. She does need to sell the house.

Moving house is not a punishment. Thousands of families do it every year for all sorts of reasons.