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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Late friend's neighbour being unreasonable? (trigger dead body details)

86 replies

couchparsnip · 01/08/2018 08:45

My close friend of 30 years died suddenly last week.

Her neighbour knew her well, apparently my friend had been visiting for the last couple of years as she has been suffering from anxiety and depression, they had got quite close it seems, although I had never heard of her and neither had my friend's family. (Mum, sister and boyfriend).

I saw my friend's mum yesterday and she told me the neighbour had been "insistent" on seeing the body and was going over today to talk about it and to pay her respects to the family. The mum and boyfriend have decided against embalming as my friend would not have wanted it. There had to be a post mortem so I assume there will be evidence of that as well. They have said this to the neighbour but she still wants to see. I dont know all.of the details of post mortems but I am thinking it won't be a pretty sight.

My friend's boyfriend thought the neighbour might not be thinking straight and added that when he went to see theher it was "too intense" and he didnt want to see her alone again. I haven't met her but we texted the other day and she mentioned that my friend was upset with me for missing a night out. I was quite upset by that so am maybe not being totally fair on her.

The Mum and boyfriend asked my opinion and I said they should think about refusing the request to see the body. They didnt seem keen anyway, the neighbour seems to be making it about herself and it maybe wouldn't be good for her anyway if she suffers from anxiety.

Was I unreasonable to give my opinion and is this woman out of order to be insistent with someone's grieving parent and partner. I am worried she will railroad them into something they aren't comfortable with as they are both lovely gentle people. But maybe I am.being unfair, my.emotions are all over the place anyway.

OP posts:

NoWayNoHow · 01/08/2018 12:10

It's not just the family that's not heard of her though - the OP was her close friend over 3 decades and was unaware of this lady's existence until the neighbour told her what good friends they were just after telling the OP how much she'd upset her dead friend.

I don't know about others, but my friends all have a passing awareness of who my other friends are, even if they themselves don't know each other. It's what you talk about at dinner - "oh, so-and-so has moved from x place to x place - move went really badly, they dropped a piano" or "how's Person X getting on with the new job at Place Y? I know someone who works there, it's lovely I've heard". That kind of thing.

Regardless, though - if I were the neighbour and I was the closest person in the world to the OP's late friend, I would never pressure the grieving parent or partner in this way. It's just wrong.

FiestaThenSiesta · 01/08/2018 12:12

Pilar, you’re just making stuff up now about what ought to happen as opposed to what is. She ought to be able to say goodbye to her friend but the family have decided her grieving is to “intense” for them, they’re not comfortable so who cares about anyone else’s way of dealing with the death.

Everyone gets selfish when dealing with grief and the family and OP are thinking about what’s best for themselves.

FiestaThenSiesta · 01/08/2018 12:14

It doesn’t make the woman strange. It just means the OP and family don’t want to deal with the shite and their feelings trump the neighbour’s grief.

I don’t think either party is wrong, but it is a bit shite for the Neighbour, who has been there on daily basis for this woman last couple of years.

BerkInBag · 01/08/2018 12:15

If the body has not been embalmed, the coffin will be 'closed' i.e. Screwed down as they are not allowed to view unembalmed bodies in this country.

I don't think this is true. Neither of my parents was embalmed and we allowed close family to view on the morning of the funerals. My father also had a post-mortem and the undertaker made sure that none of the evidence of this was visible.

I think embalming is not the norm and simple refrigeration of the body can ensure it is fit for viewing.

PilarTernera · 01/08/2018 12:17

Fiesta I am giving my opinion, same as everyone else on this thread. It is AIBU, after all.

If my beliefs are different than yours, that's fair enough. I believe it is wrong to upset a bereaved family. I am no more making stuff up than you are.

SassitudeandSparkle · 01/08/2018 12:17

Sorry for your loss, OP.

If you let the Funeral Director know, they will say the coffin is closed and not permit viewings (to that particular person, the family can still go if they wish).

A body doesn't have to be embalmed to be viewed, nor will the post mortem leave any visible signs outside normal clothing.

If someone dies suddenly and unexpectedly, it can be hard to get used to the idea of never seeing them again. So whether it is this thought with the neighbour or she is just being a drama llama is hard to say. But your friend's family are quite within their rights not to allow viewings if they don't want to and should speak to the Funeral Director who will be able to put their mind at ease over this issue.

PyongyangKipperbang · 01/08/2018 12:17

it is a bit shite for the Neighbour, who has been there on daily basis for this woman last couple of years.

Who says she has been there.........

theluckiest · 01/08/2018 12:18

Ugh, she does sound like a ghoul. It's funny how something like a death brings out all sorts of odd behaviour.

When MIL died suddenly, her next door neighbours made it all about them. DH went to tell them when the funeral was. He was utterly bemused by their wailing and insistence that they 'couldn't possibly go to the funeral as they were soooo upset.' Fair enough, but don't say that to the son of the person who had just died...

DH didn't go and see his mum in the funeral home (she'd had to have a post-mortem as well) but someone did. Some random bloke from her local pub went to see her body. Although DH didn't object to anyone who wanted to visit, he did think this was weird.

Anyway, I'm sorry about your friend OP. You sound like a lovely caring friend.

LilMadAgain · 01/08/2018 12:20

I was responsible for my dads body and all the paperwork stuff around his death. The funeral home (although they failed in every other respect, stay away from the Co Op Funeralcare) made it explicitly clear that nobody would be allowed anywhere near my dads sealed coffin without my permission and if someone had asked them they would have contacted me first. You can prevent someone from seeing a body, or else you'd have all and sundry marching into funeral homes out of morbid curiosity.

Original poster

couchparsnip · 01/08/2018 12:51

Someone said the family are being hostile. The family arent hostile to her at all, they are being very kind. They are concerned about her wellbeing. Its me and my friend's BF that are most wary and that is probably because she was mean to me by text. I told him about that and he said, "don't listen to that, she loved you".

They are meeting the neighbour today and I will see the boyfriend tonight as a few of us are talking about funeral music.

If its right about the coffin being screwed down and her no one being allowed to see then that is very reassuring. It will be taken out of the mum's hands and she won't feel she is saying no. She's so lovely and has taken on board a suggestion from the neighbour about a song for the funeral.

Its totally possible my friend saw this woman all the time and I, her BF and family were never aware. IlEven so, she should be more respectful and not push the family into things. They were even considering embalming just so this woman could see her but we all agreed my friend wouldn't have wanted it.

OP posts:

Mummyoflittledragon · 01/08/2018 12:59

I’m sorry for your loss. I agree with the consensus that her insistence is bizarre. I can only assume she’s from a different culture. Your friend’s family ultimate decision on what they wish to do and they do not wish to allow viewings.

Justwanttotravel · 01/08/2018 13:07

Bezm - you can view a deceased that hasn’t been embalmed. If the funeral director is of the opinion that’s body shouldn’t be viewed (for whatever reason) this will be discussed with the family, however their wishes will be followed if they still want to view.
81Byerley - must be a small percentage of funeral directors that charge for chapel visits. Having worked in lots of homes I have never come across this.

wowfudge · 01/08/2018 13:14

Everyone's grief is different. If someone wants to view the deceased I don't see there is an issue unless there is injury to the body that might make it more distressing, when you want them to be dissuaded. I am sorry for your loss OP .

wowfudge · 01/08/2018 13:14

When you might want them to be dissuaded.

CSIblonde · 01/08/2018 13:34

Does she feel she didn't get a proper goodbye maybe? (was it very sudden?) I do think she has to respect the family's wishes tbh. Pressuring grieving family isn't on IMO. If they really were that close, maybe she'll be mentioned in the will (if there is one).

AlexaAmbidextra · 01/08/2018 13:35

Those saying that you can’t view an unembalmed body are talking absolute nonsense. My father died recently. He wasn’t embalmed but was refrigerated for the four weeks between his death and funeral. I went to see him and there was nothing untoward to see.

Krate · 01/08/2018 14:20

Its entirely the family's decision to let people view or not. If it were me I would support what ever their decision was regardless of how I personally felt about the neighbour.

wowfudge · 01/08/2018 15:55

I'd do the same Krate.

IceCreamFace · 01/08/2018 16:03

FiestaThenSiesta No not everyone because selfish while grieving. Any normal person would be very upset to lose a friend but would still manage to have empathy to the closest family members who are bound to be more distraught. I don't necessarily have a problem with someone wanting to see their friend's body (although it's unusual) but they have no automatic right to and should accept "no".

Clairetree1 · 01/08/2018 16:14

they have no automatic right to and should accept "no".

legally I think they do, though, because the family does not own the body, they control its disposal, as far as I understand nobody owns a dead body

LoveInTokyo · 01/08/2018 16:20

Sorry for your loss OP.

The neighbour is being inappropriate and creepy. It would be a no from me.

Nobody needs to see a dead body unless they are required to identify it. If immediate family wish to see it, that's up to them.

AllyMcBeagle · 01/08/2018 18:40

They cannot legally prevent the friend viewing it, I don't think

I strongly disagree. Whilst nobody can legally own a body (except in very limited circumstances which are not relevant here), whoever has the legal duty to bury the deceased has a right to possession of the body for that purpose - see eg Buchanan v Milton. That right to possess will mean that they can control who is able to view the body; the body is being refrigerated prior to burial and should not be taken out of the refrigeration unit unnecessarily. Further, it would be absolutely bizarre if I could just walk into a funeral home and demand to see all the dead bodies they happen to have there on the basis that nobody legally owns them. I don't think you have considered this fully.

OP - YANBU at all and I would be very cautious of this neighbour in light of their strange texts messages to you and their demands. I'm really sorry for your loss

JellyBears · 01/08/2018 18:43

I’m sure Megan Markle wishes her family would shut up...

JellyBears · 01/08/2018 18:44

Oops I wrong thread cringe

Original poster

couchparsnip · 05/08/2018 08:49

I am sure she does too JellyBears!

A quick update. They are going to allow the viewing as the neighbour is still 'insistent'. The sister emphasized that word and made it clear she wasn't happy.

Apparently the undertaker is going to use some makeup.

I think the family have done this because they are kind people and are being railroaded. The BF told me that my friends DM is getting daily phone calls from this woman. That seems out of order to me as well.

I sincerely hope she buggers off after the funeral and leaves them in peace. It's odd to say the least.

OP posts:

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