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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Late friend's neighbour being unreasonable? (trigger dead body details)

86 replies

couchparsnip · 01/08/2018 08:45

My close friend of 30 years died suddenly last week.

Her neighbour knew her well, apparently my friend had been visiting for the last couple of years as she has been suffering from anxiety and depression, they had got quite close it seems, although I had never heard of her and neither had my friend's family. (Mum, sister and boyfriend).

I saw my friend's mum yesterday and she told me the neighbour had been "insistent" on seeing the body and was going over today to talk about it and to pay her respects to the family. The mum and boyfriend have decided against embalming as my friend would not have wanted it. There had to be a post mortem so I assume there will be evidence of that as well. They have said this to the neighbour but she still wants to see. I dont know all.of the details of post mortems but I am thinking it won't be a pretty sight.

My friend's boyfriend thought the neighbour might not be thinking straight and added that when he went to see theher it was "too intense" and he didnt want to see her alone again. I haven't met her but we texted the other day and she mentioned that my friend was upset with me for missing a night out. I was quite upset by that so am maybe not being totally fair on her.

The Mum and boyfriend asked my opinion and I said they should think about refusing the request to see the body. They didnt seem keen anyway, the neighbour seems to be making it about herself and it maybe wouldn't be good for her anyway if she suffers from anxiety.

Was I unreasonable to give my opinion and is this woman out of order to be insistent with someone's grieving parent and partner. I am worried she will railroad them into something they aren't comfortable with as they are both lovely gentle people. But maybe I am.being unfair, my.emotions are all over the place anyway.

OP posts:
Bluelady · 01/08/2018 10:44

Viewings are by appointment only. I don't remember being charged extra to see my dad. It's complete nonsense that you can't view unembalmed bodies in the UK. I'm going against the grain and saying I can't see the harm if she contacts the undertaker and makes the arrangements herself.

Clairetree1 · 01/08/2018 10:45

If the body has not been embalmed, the coffin will be 'closed' i.e. Screwed down as they are not allowed to view unembalmed bodies in this country.

nonsense

It is completely normal to say goodbye to a friend or loved one, I've worked in nursing homes where many people have died, we have laid them out neatly, dressed them nicely and many people have come to say goodbye.

This is before being taken away by an undertaker, normally for 24-48 hours after death.

its completely normal

This ladies request is nothing extreme or unusual.

If the family want to say no, that is their decision, but don't treat this poor bereaved friend as if she is asking something freakish or weird

NoWayNoHow · 01/08/2018 10:55

*It is completely normal to say goodbye to a friend or loved one, I've worked in nursing homes where many people have died, we have laid them out neatly, dressed them nicely and many people have come to say goodbye.

This is before being taken away by an undertaker, normally for 24-48 hours after death.*

But in this case, this is after the undertaker has removed the body, and the death was last week...

Additionally, the "poor bereaved friend" in question is being, according the OP's late friend's family, 'insistent'. To behave like that with the mother and partner of someone who apparently would have meant so much to her is odd at best, and unacceptable at worst.

Clairetree1 · 01/08/2018 10:58

The body would have been refrigerated though, it doesn't matter how long ago the death was

whataboutbob · 01/08/2018 10:59

Clearly this lady has some issues and feels strongly that she wants to be involved in the whole process post death. However it was aggressive of her to mention the missed night out to the OP who cannot do anything about it now and will just feel more guilty.
I had similar after my mum died very suddenly at 54. She was a kind person who attracted lame ducks and looked after them. Some of them were only too happy to tell me stuff my mum had apparently said about me. Or tell me my mum was unhappy, etc. Stuff I could do nothing about except ruminate on.
Maybe the best way forward is to project sympathy and understanding but protect oneself in contacts with the friend, as the deceased lady’s partner is doing by not seeing her alone.

Clairetree1 · 01/08/2018 11:00

The thing is, nobody really knows how close these two actually were, and allowing her to see the body is harmless, whilst preventing her could cause great upset, and not have been what the deceased person wanted.

In the end, the body doesn't actually belong to anyone, does it?

Leesa65 · 01/08/2018 11:02

My friend saw her mum , who was not embalmed .

Trust me, she wished she hadn't but it was her Mum who she nursed up till her death but that is the final thing she recalls .
Best not to view in such cases .

Leesa65 · 01/08/2018 11:03

Also, OP, sorry , I meant to put this at the end of my prior messages .

I am very sorry for your loss . Flowers

Clairetree1 · 01/08/2018 11:04

its personal preference.

when my mum died I sat by the body all night, holding her hand

my sister wouldn't enter the house until the body had gone.

You know if you are someone who wants to spend time with the body or not

SirVixofVixHall · 01/08/2018 11:06

Ugggh she sounds horrible. I had a similar experience when a good friend of mine died. She’d had some (really bad and manipulative) “counselling” from a woman who became over-involved in an extremely odd way. My friend’s family wanted only immediate family members at the graveside, but this woman lied to me and another friend, and said that she had been asked to also be at the grave. It really was bizarre and your friend’s neighbour sounds similarly strange. I really wouldn’t trust anything she says to you, she sounds as though she could have mental health issues, or simply be an odd and unpleasant person.
I am very sorry that you have lost your friend.

Notevilstepmother · 01/08/2018 11:07

In my opinion the body belongs to the family and they have every right to stop a nosy neighbour getting involved. I’m afraid if they were as close as this woman claims you or the family would know. I think she’s a bit of a drama lover like mentioned above with the child who had a seizure. The family don’t need this right now, I wouldn’t encourage her.

Notevilstepmother · 01/08/2018 11:09

oh and sorry for you’re loss Flowers

FiestaThenSiesta · 01/08/2018 11:11

“Insistent” might simply mean..

Oh er well I’m not sure you’ll really want to see the body will you... No, no, I really do if you don’t object.

All the neighbour did was ask. It seems the family are all a bit out of shape because they’ve realised they didn’t know the ins/outs of the lady’s daily life as well as they imagined and had no idea about this friendship with her neighbour. So the OP has labelled the next door neighbour as odd and bizarre and questions whether they were friends at all. Fair enough, they’re grieving and they feel defensive and protective. It doesn’t mean the neighbour isn’t also grieving and just wanted to say a last goodbye to her friend.

PyongyangKipperbang · 01/08/2018 11:17

She really wants to make it all about her doesnt she? Like PP, I am very sceptical about her claims of close friendship. They probably passed the time of day and thats all. Ime people who were genuinely close to someone who has died want to do all they can to make it easier on the family/partner etc, the ones who make a huge fuss about themselves are the ones who just enjoy the drama and the deceased would probably have struggled to pick them out in a line up.

Tell her to jog on on her mum and boyfriends behalf, and keep an eye on her at the funeral as she sounds the type who would make that all about her too.

I am so sorry Flowers

PilarTernera · 01/08/2018 11:22

YANBU they asked for your opinion and you gave it. The neighbour is out of order.

The important people in this situation are the bereaved family. Their needs and wishes come first. It is inexcusable to be putting pressure on them. That behaviour is nothing like "paying your respects," it is entirely disrespectful. As pp have said, if she was a reall friend, she would be trying to comfort the bereaved family members, not putting pressure on them and upsetting them further.

Also, the comment about your friend being upset with you for missing a night out is just plain nasty. Even if it were true, the only reason for saying this to you is to put you down and upset you.

Sorry for your loss Flowers

Clairetree1 · 01/08/2018 11:28

In my opinion the body belongs to the family

that's just your opinion, not the law, though.

The next of kin has the right to decide how it is disposed of, but they don't own it, nor the viewing rights to it.

They cannot legally prevent the friend viewing it, I don't think

Tomatoesrock · 01/08/2018 11:33

YANBU. A definite no. I think she is a CF too. I had a colleague once she was a nosey cow, another member if staff had cancer and was very near the end, he didn't want anyone visiting especially from work, she absolutely hounded his family and bitched constantly about how the family were stopping her, they caved she got to visit. I never liked her after that.

I am very sorry for your loss Flowers If this lady was a real friend she wouldn't have said that to you about the night out, or insist on seeing your DF. She sounds like a loon.

DontDrinkDontSmoke · 01/08/2018 11:33

I prevented anyone seeing my FIL after he died by having the coffin closed as soon as possible.

I knew distant members of family and some close friends were planning a vigil but also knew my FIL would have hated the thought.

They still had there vigil, and all they got to gawp at was a wooden box.

DontDrinkDontSmoke · 01/08/2018 11:33

the vigil

Clairetree1 · 01/08/2018 11:35

The thing is, when I think about some of the people I am absolutely closest to in life, I am not sure who else would know about the closeness.

Some of my closest friends could possibly die without their NOK even informing me not out of malice, but simply out of not knowing who I was or what my contact details are.

Whereas people I know as part of a group, or family, rather than as an individual, someone else in the group would tell me.

It is quite possible that they were very close indeed, who knows? and her request to view the body has been taken totally out of context, by some distressed and bereaved people.

She should be allowed to, in my opinion. In fact, as I said, legally, cannot be prevented, I don't think.

( I am going by a similar situation in which a friend viewed her ex-step father's body, in spite of his current wife trying to refuse her permission- legally, she couldn't prevent her, although she did bizarrely have a photographer on stand by to record the event, for what purpose I am not sure)

PilarTernera · 01/08/2018 11:57

Why should the funeral directors allow the friend to view the body against the wishes of the family? Even if they were good friends, even if it is 'legal', she should be comforting the bereaved family, not upsetting them further.

FiestaThenSiesta · 01/08/2018 12:00

Sounds like the bereaved family think she’s lying about her friendship (just because they weren’t aware of it) so not sure how she’s meant to be comforting someone who’s being hostile to her.

PilarTernera · 01/08/2018 12:06

Not sure how she’s meant to be comforting someone who’s being hostile to her.not sure how she’s meant to be comforting someone who’s being hostile to her.

If she is not able to comfort them, then at least she can stop upsetting them.

Maybe she didn't see herself as putting pressure on the family, but that is how they perceived it. Feelings are all over the place with bereavements, especially when it is a sudden death.

Branleuse · 01/08/2018 12:07

I wonder if its a cultural thing. Catholic countries tend to go and view dead bodies out of respect. Ive never heard of it being a big thing in England though, but completely normal and respectful in Ireland and France

Sugarpiehoneyeye · 01/08/2018 12:08

@WellThisIsShit, what an excellent post, and so very true.
OP, I'm so sorry for your loss, for what it's worth, I think you definitely said the right thing.🌹

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