To think it can’t be that a hard to keep drugs out of prisons

[Stoveding]

it Shocks me every time I hear about how ride it is with known dealers inside.
Surely, if there was a proper will, it could easily be all but eradicated?

This is such a sad thread, but so necessary. My eyes are opened wider after reading it. Whatever side of the fence you sit on, it must be obvious that we need a system to take the maniacs out of circulation, for the sake of society but without pointless punitive abuse of society's failures.

The staff are the problem in a lot of prisons

@RedPanda2 may I ask what your source is that suggests that?

Yes I realised when I posted it wasn’t quite right

I am aware of hierarchy I work with ex offenders with mh issues most very violent offences

I meant as we can’t allow it as part of prisoners punishment (not that anyone would be sentenced to five years a a regular beating for other prisoners) but for it seen as ok and accepted but I am sure at times some guards look away or more likely there are too few staff

I agree and think there should be no contact between prisoners and visitors. They could have a screen with a phone to speak to the visitor then they wouldnt be able to get the drugs

@EnthusiasmIsDisturbed I can only speak for myself but I have NEVER witnessed a prison officer (we aren't called guards in the UK btw that's a very American term), turn a blind eye. Ever. And the prison I work in is pretty horrendous. You think we want a death in custody on our hands? If someone is being beaten black and blue there is usually a cell bell or an alarm going off and unless we are completely oblivious to the assault (for example it happened overnight and we had no inkling of it happening) then it's very difficult to look away. I think people have the entirely wrong end of the stick when it comes to prisons and what officers have to contend with. Trust me, we don't want to be in magistrates, crown or god help us coroners court being asked to explain ourselves.

Officers never look away. We have radios, bells, whistles (if we blow our whistle this implies we are on our own, cannot get to an alarm or need help, quick). We use one of these and wait for enough staff to be present. Given, it has often been broken up by prisoners before we even have time to intervene, but turning a blind eye really isn't a thing where I work.

more well trained and qualified prison officers are needed. They are understaffed and underpaid. When you consider what we are asking Prison officers to do on a daily basis, their responsibilities are not recognised enough.

They are expected to be able to relate to the worst of offenders, care for the mentally ill, restrain and control angry and violent people, search and find drugs, phones, weapons, be listening ears and civilising shoulders to cry on, rehabilitators and escorts with eyes in the back of their heads.

All this, while at great personal danger themselves and the current 'spice' problem is a huge threat to their wellbeing ~ as they can inhale it themselves when dealing with prisoners.

I do think longer sentences are needed for serious crimes. There needs to be more opportunity for rehabilitation and training. There needs to be greater care of offenders with mental health issues ~ and appropriate placements for them. Prison is not the answer ~ secure institutions for the mentally ill and proper medical and psychiatric care could be.

Prison is a terrifying place for many, though going by the number of repeat offenders not terrifying enough for the right ones. The loss of liberty for some prisoners is a huge thing, for some Prison is safer than their life outside.

We can't allow our prison officers to be undervalued, understaffed or underpaid. They need to be able to go in to work feeling positive ~ they are working to keep us safe.

Totally agree @DesignStatement.

@DesignStatement brilliantly put. Thank you.

The staff are the problem in a lot of prisons

Then root them out. One rotten officer puts other officers at risk. An officer who brings in drugs or phones is basically threatening the life of fellow officers - don't imagine good officers want that!

The staff are occasionally 'a' problem, but to say they are the problem is far too strong, and incorrect. The problems caused by bent staff compared to drones, visitors, improvised weapons, staff shortages etc etc are minuscule. I would never condone an officer breaking the rules or law, it infuriates me, however I don't think it happens as often as we think.

I always assumed it was the prison officers bringing it in

@NotSuchASmugMarriedNow1 rarely. They come in on recalls, drones, throw overs, in cavities, visits, post, property, etc etc. I came across one staff member bringing in drugs years ago and he was sacked and found out pretty quickly as staff searches are done randomly. It's not impossible that it's rife and I am completely naive to it however I truly don't think that's the case.

@BluePrintedLove @DesignStatement

My hat off to both of you.

I only recently realised that being a PO was more than just a security guard and I am ashamed to admit that. I don't know what the answer is but it's heartening to know that there are passionate POs out there against all the odds.

Not looked up thread, but has anybody recommended to Channel 4 documentary called 'Prison' on last week. One episode deals with the drugs issue and one the mental health issue in Durham (not even a category A prison). Not a job I could do - but thank goodness someone does it.
I do think prison officers are the 'forgotten'. The government have the power to change how prisons are run and funded, not the officers. It's a long time since any enlightened reform came down from government level. The officers are too often left shovelling up the shit (literally and metaphorically) of inaction.

No sorry I didn’t mean to imply that officers (not guards) are implicit

But working with ex offenders I do hear the stories (some love to tell) of being sold drugs from inside the violence as I said the hierarchy, the relationships only with female staff of course (stories sometimes exaggerated but as you know everything is documented)

I know the pressure you are under and what a death or serious harm to someone would mean and who’s job would be on the line

Tessliketrees
I'm not a prison officer - couldn't do the job in a million years.

design funnily enough, CatB prisons from my experience are far worse. Lots of starred up youngsters who are doing 3-5 year sentences and need to prove their worth. At least in a Cat A (I worked in one for 2 years) MOST people are doing long sentences and try to keep their head down after the initial shock. Remand prisons are by far the worst I've ever worked in.

@DesignStatement

Ahh sorry I mixed up the posts.

You can have my hat off as well for an excellently written and compassionate post.

enthusiasm I would take these stories with a pinch of salt. I had 30+ prisoners telling me they were having intimate relations with staff. No idea why. We barely had 30 women working in the prison! They were entirely made up stories. Not saying that the odd one isn't true, it possibly is, but I wouldn't believe everything you hear. A lot of ex prisoners are angry at the prison service for the way they've been treated (locked away from society). They may well be telling you these stories in the hope that you pass them on in order to discredit. Not always the case but be careful.

I'm sorry I've not read full thread but ...

I've worked in Prisons for years. We could easily get the drug problem under control and near enough eradicate drugs in prison if prisons had more funding.

Currently staff are too scared to challenge prisoners because they often have lots of prisoners to deal with without back up and support from other staff. cannabis is more than tolerated (sadly sometimes encouraged as it keeps prisoners 'calm' apparently), there is no money to adequately, daily, search staff and their bags etc... or to do enough searches on wings.

More money would mean more staff to challenge prisoners, search, provide more testing, more search dogs and equipment, more drug rehab programmes, etc.....

The prisons are broke, so drugs run rife (in the prison I work in, so does violence, self harm, and a whole host of other things too)

BluePrintedLove
Yes ~ I imagine category A YOI are like that. Pumped up small fish trying to be big fish inside. Scary.

As an ex spice addict, I can tell you that the withdrawal is fucking terrible.

It's not as simple as just getting rid of it all.

Also, the chemical compound of it changes with each new batch, so it's very difficult for medical staff to even know what they're dealing with.

I have a loved one in prison and over the last 5 years have visited around 150 times at 4 different prisons. He was sent to prison for his first offence aged 38.

Not once I have been effectively searched- not once. I don't even mean strip searched - I mean turn ups on trousers, boots, shoes, hoods, hair, mouths - not searched ever
Searches on visitors are about imposing control and intimidation to get instant obedience and not about finding contraband. I saw a visiter turned away because she was wearing flip flops and she returned and was let in wearing air max - which is easier to smuggle drugs in. I was turned away once because the top i had worn 3x before was now deemed to have too short sleeves and went and put a full length puffer coat on and was allowed in.

The vast majority of prisons do not do any kind of search on under 2's so never check nappies despite them being too young to really understand.

We see sniffer dogs on around 1 in 10 visits and our loved one says they send them round the cells about once a fortnight. He is searched on leaving the visitors room - and this is strip searched less than 50% of the time

The reality is the prison service has no real interest in stopping the supply of drugs. After all it is not them dying or being harmed - it is prisoners. No prison officer has ever been killed or received life changing injuries in the history of the prison service. But around 100 prisoners a year do. Contrary to media portrayal being a prison officer is not in the top 25 most dangerous jobs - taxi driving and countryside rangers get more injuries.. on our loved ones current jail the officers have been told to record any incident as an assault- our loved one was told this when an officer wrote him up because he had received a papercut when handing over a sheet of paper - another recorded his cell mate when he accidently stepped on his toe when helping to move chairs - the figures currently bring shown cannot be trusted. It also gives them an easy excuse for why prisons are such a total faliure. Around 65% of people leaving prison are 're convicted within a year and it is estimated 95% commit a crime within a month of release albeit minor crimes but do not get caught. Prison simply does not work and drugs are an easy excuse.

And for those who say stop all contact with the outside world - well whatever system you look at - the relaxed Scandinavian model or the harsh eastern models quite literally the only known way to prevent people returning to crime is maintaining family relationships - so you want to stop the only thing that could prevent future crime????.

Also visits are not for prisoners they are for the innocent family members including the 200 000 children who have a parent in prison every year.

If prisons wanted to stop or massively reduce drug's entering they could - they just need the will to do so.

Oh and our loved one has now become a drug addict since being in prison - he hardly used drugs before- he is now addicted to tranquilizers and sleeping tablets dolled out by the biggest drug dealers in the system - the prison doctors.

Oh and we are not allowed to send anything into prison - not even letters - nothing at all. Even photos are now emailed and printed at the prison.

And if you want to know what prisons are like then this happened at my loved ones prison. A man woke up to hear that the block of flats his wife and children lived in was on fire. Even on the radio reports he could hear the screams. As soon as his cell was unlocked He tried to call his wife and brother but their phones did not connect. All the prisoners on the wing stayed away from the phones to allow him to keep ringing. He wanted to call the emergency contact number but it was not on his list of approved numbers so could not. The officers said they would let him see the governor to get permission to ring but he was not in until 10. The guy collapsed crying on the floor and the officers told him to stop being silly but to get up and go to work and they would get him when the governor got in.....go to work??????

Luckily another prisoner took him to his cell where he had a mobile and he was able to make a few calls and found his family had got out. Another guy in the prison was told his wife had died in childbirth on Xmas eve - he couldn't speak to his older children for 48hrs. Just think for 5 seconds what this must have been like. Neither of these men were a rapist murderer or paedophile.

That is the punishment - not being there when your child is born, or takes their first steps, or when your wife's mother has cancer, or when your son gets his karate grading or your friend dies or your family get made homeless. Not knowing where your lifetimes possessions are, or what your girlfriend is doing, or whether any of your friends even remember you. Not touching grass, not sitting on a comfy chair, not having a single hot meal, not eating bacon, not seeing the sea.

If you think having a ps4 - not that anyone can have a ps4 they even have to pay a rental charge for the portable tv's - but if you think that makes up for all the above then you have a screwed up sense of priorities.

I not saying you should feel sympathy but just accept that being imprisoned is a massivel punishment in itself.

This is why people take drugs in prison - legal or illegal- not to have a good time but just to cope with being in prison.