My 7yr old needs a filling!!! Where am I going wrong???

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I am mortified but also, really confused.
We are annoyingly particular about what our children eat, and their health etc. they have the odd treat if going to a party or something but we don't have chocolate, sweets, fizzy drinks, fruit juice, cakes, biscuits in the house etc. We avoid process food and make 95% of our meals ourselves (even rearing our own meat and growing our own veg). They are both very healthy, fit children.
They both brush their teeth for 1min each twice a day and we follow it by us brushing their teeth for another two minutes. DS's and 7 and 5.
DS1 needs a filling and dentist accused me of neglecting his teeth, but then DS2 has 'the most perfect' teeth he had seen in a 5 year old. After seeing DS2's he backed off his parenting rant and said he had never seen two siblings with such different teeth - even asking me if DH and I were separated and the children lived in separate houses?
Where am I going wrong with DS1 - I've been looking at enamel problems or am I missing something health wise? Feel absolutely mortified today and like I failed my child!!

It's acid environment that causes bacteria that cause decay to be active
40 mins after acid drink/snack, mouth gets back to normal (assuming normal saliva)
So if sipping any acid drink or snack throughout day, environment better for caries
So reduce snacking, only water between meals or maybe cheese which is fine? Or tea with milk
Fat gives teeth a layer of fat which buffers the acid so good between meals
As PP don't brush after fruit/acid stuff
Use xylitol chewing gum after food - think it's an alcohol sugar or something that bacteria can't eat so good

Ooh sparkfluff thank you for that!
Yes - high fluoride toothpaste 👍

Dmacka my son has fillings hes 11 he has a condition call Ameleogenesis Imperfecta, his teeth are weak and prone to decay

I have enamel hypoplasia (both sets of teeth), and so does my mother and my DD (only has her milk teeth so far, but has had no antibiotics whatsoever). We are all hypermobile. The two conditions are genetically determined, and appear to be correlated. I have spent a fortune on painful dental restorations over the years, and dread DD having to do the same. I am really careful with diet to try to avoid what I can, but still have loads of problems. It is not always diet alone that causes the issues. It sucks.

DD2 has always been on the dentists 'watchout' list because of her absolute passion for fruit. Her enamel is f**ed now and has just had a filling in a baby tooth. Unfortunately /fortunately both my girls have held onto their baby teeth for a long time (DD1 had 6 taken out at 15 so could fit a brace and DD2 is 12 and only lost three so far). Dentist has recently prescribed DD2 a hIgh flouride toothpaste to try to protect what she has.
But I can completely identify with the embarrassment/guilt. You're definitely not alone

That's interesting @ShovingLeopard my son has great teeth but my daughter had to have baby teeth removed due to fillings and not letting the dentist near her mouth when she was little .She does have a coating on them after her checkup to help the enamel.She has hyper mobility but her brother doesn't .I did ask the dentist when they were younger about the difference but he said it's down to genetics some are stronger than others and her adult teeth should be stronger and he was right.

My first three children (eldest is 20) no fillings. Baby number four had a filling aged 5!!! I blame moving to Scotland with their fresh, pure water and no fluoride. But it could be that by number four my parenting is rather slacker than it was for the others

DS1 has great teeth, strong, white and no decay (10 yrs).

DS2 had terrible baby teeth - the front top two came through missing half the enamel, so the dentine very quickly wore away, they became infected and had to be extracted at 18 months. Btw ages 2-6 he had at least 4-5 fillings. Every dentist (and he’s seen at least 4 different dentists) has said the same - that some children just have poor / weak enamel, that it’s down to fever / sickness / abs during pregnancy which disrupts the formation of the tooth buds in utero. He’s 7 now and his adult teeth are coming in normally, thank goodness.

The brushing regime / diet for the two of them was pretty much the same. We are in France, maybe dentists are less judgemental here :)

@cardibach... Permanent dentition/adult teeth may be more prone to caries/decay if an underlying factor causes hypermineralisation, however there still needs to be a trigger to this eg sugar between meals
Dmacka did you read the bit where I said I was only allowed sweets once a week? There was no sugar between meals. Try to avoid telling people what they ate. My sister, incidentally, with the same diet and toothcare had very few fillings.

My now 6 y o needed his first filling (well 3) at age 3.....
The pre school manager took me to one side when I said he would be off for a dental appt and said ‘I’m not being funny. The ONLY children who have issues like this with their teeth had Mother’s who took HEROIN during pregnancy ......🤔.....’
She was an absolute bitch. We were told his enamel was just awful due to being early and in NICU and on v strong antibiotics

Some people just have bad teeth. I was shocking with mine as a kid/teen and have never had a single cavity, DP was very vigilant and had had 3... it happens

Ah yes, the bad dentists are to blame.
Oh behave

I'm convinced tooth health is mostly genetic.

I eat crap! Utter crap! I was also bulimic for about 15 years (which is supposed to b very bad for teeth) no was a smoker for 10 years. I also drink gallons of tea and coffee and always have, never floss..... yet, luckily, I have 'perfect' teeth according to my dentist. Never had a filling or any thing more than a check up at dentist. I'm early 40s.

DH (also 40s) has always eaten v healthily, never smoked, avoids tea and coffee, brushes and flosses religiously daily. Yet his teeth are crap and really stained.

No matter how much we try and explain all this to the dentist, dentist remains really hard on DH as if his tooth problems are his fault! I also get loads of praise as if I'm some tooth saint! (Despite never ever looking after or bothering about my teeth!)

Dentists r in another planet in my opinion! (Sorry any dentists on here!!)

Is it possible you are over-brushing/brushing too hard? If enamel is weak apparently you can cause “toothbrush ebrasion” where you literally wear off some of the enamel - or so m dentist told me. Apparently the solution is to use an electric toothbrush that stops working if you push too hard.

On a slightly different note, I’m horrified by the fact there is no fluoride added to the water in England. I grew up in the US and Australia and everywhere I lived until my late 20s had fluoride added to the water and I don’t think I knew anyone who had a filling as a child or teen. Why isn’t it in water here!?

On a slightly different note, I’m horrified by the fact there is no fluoride added to the water in England. I grew up in the US and Australia and everywhere I lived until my late 20s had fluoride added to the water and I don’t think I knew anyone who had a filling as a child or teen. Why isn’t it in water here!?

In my US home town no flouride is added to the water. Dentists prescribe flouride tablets for children here.

First permanent molars of poor prognosis can have bog all to do with diet. Often they're never going to survive beyond childhood.

And fluoride in water in England varies by area.

My DD has never needed fillings or extractions due to decay, but her adult molars all came through with no enamel on them. They were all taken out prior to braces being fitted to make more room but her wisdom teeth are also coming through brown. DS has perfect teeth. Just luck of the draw I reckon.

Teeth are totally luck of the draw. My brothers have both had serious dental problems and I at 38 have never had a cavity. My bones and enamel are incredibly strong. I eat sweets (not to excess), and am lax about dental care at times.

guidelines (in Aust anyway) suggest brushing for them until at least 8 - they can do it, but you brush afterwards. They just don't have the dexterity to do a proper brush while they are young

My front teeth have little white spots on them due to me having chicken pox at the time they were coming down. Illnesses while teeth are developing can have an impact. Is DS ill more often or did he have a lot of illness at the time his teeth were growing?

I would stop the dried apple but the rest of his diet sounds fine

Such a lot of nonsense on this thread!

Dental decay (caries) is caused by bacteria on the teeth feeding on sugars in the mouth- so if you don't remove the bacteria by effective brushing and ingest sugars, particularly between meals, your teeth will decay.

Topical fluoride, from toothpaste or water, makes enamel stronger.
Tetracycline antibiotics taken in pregnancy cause enamel to have yellow 'stripes' on it, but no other antibiotics cause problems.
Hypomineralised enamel is weaker, but this is really quite rare.

Brush your teeth at least twice a day and floss every night and avoid sugars between meals.

Acids in fruit juices, especially citrus fruits, damage enamel by eroding the enamel, so teeth appear yellowed and will be very sensitive.

I'm a dentist btw and have heard every excuse under the sun but it's not difficult really to avoid decay.

I did notice a big difference in children's teeth when I moved from working in an area with no fluoride in the water to an area with fluoride though- it makes a big difference (and doesn't cause cancer)

HTH

@Elfride
I agree with most of what you’re saying but do you think molar incisor hypomineralisation is rare? I am seeing it becoming more common in general practice.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4155885/
The other main factor is fruit. Parents trying to be healthy and doing 5 a day and far too many sweet snacks like apples, grapes and raisins. The snacks marketed to send to school as being just fruit like yo-yos are pure sugar.
I have had to refer for GA extractions before and we finally got to the bottom of the problem- apple juice and raisins- as “healthy”.

It's lucky or genes or something.

I am 44 with one filling. Was hopeless as a child, only brushed teeth once a day once my parents were supervising (so in the morning, never at night), ate far too many sweets and sugary foods and fizzy drinks. Awful. I have for the last three years moved to an electric toothbrush since getting that one filling.

I have a friend of 41 who had always had a very good dental routine in terms of brushing and flossing, a very healthy diet. She's got 6 fillings.

Agree with@ Elfride re lot of nonsense on this thread; conflating of different dental conditions.