Demonisation of formula!!!

[Summertimehaze]

Don’t know if anyone watched the Dispatches programme last night on breastfeeding? The more I think about that programme the more annoyed I’m getting!!! The demonisation of formula really doesn’t help mothers who struggle to breastfeed and have to start using formula or even as a top up!! Most mothers want to do what’s right for their babies and know that breast is best. But some mums just can’t do it and so formula literally becomes a lifesaver. I’m sick of seeing mums feel so guilty about it and letting their children bloody starve because they surely can’t give them the evil formula!!!!!! The programme basically tells a new mum that it’s really tough to breastfeed, there is no support, they will be judged BUT formula is not an option!!! Grrrrrrrrr 😡. AIBU

@detention you are allowed to be proud of sticking at and achieving something you wanted to do. It doesn’t follow that people who don’t want to do that are doing less well for their children. It follows even less that people who tried and couldn’t do that are doing less well.

I remember my sister being keen to BF and being discharged the day after a CS with no sign of milk, and her DH saying 'THE BABY IS GOING TO STARVE' so they just started with bottles, and then two days later when she had rock hard boobs and milk everywhere, but she felt it was too late to try/she had made her bed etc. And while I tried to support her, I probably verged on safe side of being keen not to over encourage the BFing, which I slightly regret now. She needed somebody to say IT'S OK, THIS IS NORMAL. And to help her stand up to her inlaws and husband.

@Sockwomble sorry for your loss. I just wondered though - you said:

Having given birth to one dead baby I didn't want to risk the other one dying in the first few days after birth because I couldn't produce enough milk by expressing.

Do you know that no one produces milk on the first few days after birth? Milk doesn't come in until days 3-5 usually. The colostrum that is produced before that is enough. Maybe you know this and your post just wasn't clear, but I think that this is a huge misconception. Babies will not die if you have no milk for a few days - that's how bf works.

I've always wondered if educating women about what to expect in those first few days might stop people from stopping trying because they think their boobs aren't working

I think that is very true. I think that we are so removed from what is 'normal' breastfed baby behaviour that people just don't know to expect. Things my friends and acquaintances have stated as reasons for stopping, but which is actually really normal, expected behaviour of a breasts and breastfed baby's include:

• milk not coming in (before day 3,4 or 5).
• baby being fussy, latching and unlatching and screaming at the boob (they do this to stimulate milk production and let down and will likely continue in varying degrees until your milk supply is stable)
• feeding very frequently. This is normal in breasfed babies due to stomach size in the early days and also as a biological method of stimulating increased supply.
• cluster feeding as a sign of not having enough - again cluster feeding for the first 6 weeks and then during growth spurts is normal. It increases supply to meet growing babies needs.
• not being able to pump any or hand express therefore thinking they don't have enough milk - this normal. Most babies are very efficient at feeding, the natural suckling mechanism is hard to simulate with a pump or hand and so the amount you can express has limited bearing on the amount baby receives - check wet nappies and weight gain from day 10 as signs of sufficient supply.
• not sleeping well. - breast milk is more easily digested than formula (so they poop less too) and they take less volume at one time therefore are more likely to feed more frequently than a formula fed baby. Plus some babies, regardless of feeding method just don't like long stretches of sleep.

I'm very pro feeding choices and do not feel that the wishes and feelings of the mother should be ignored because 'breast is best'. I am also aware that some people genuinely cannot breastfeed their baby and have reduced supply - but not as may as believe that to be the case and this is due to misinformation and lack of knowledge, by mothers AND health professionals.

I think the team formula/team breastmilk doesn't help. My DD was formula fed for day 1 and I was convinced at that point I had missed my chance to breastfeed, I'm glad I gave it a go just in case. I also supplemented at first due to low supply for the first 2 weeks and later stopped needing to.

I do understand some of what dentension is trying to say all be it in the wrong way as everyone has a choice and should not be made to feel bad formula saves babies lives.
Breastfeeding is often demonized more than formula feeding in my experience. I was also in SCBU and they pressured me to use formula so often I wanted to scream as it would make their job easier. As my baby was in medical care I wanted to at least provide breastmilk and they made it so hard for me to do that. I went through so many struggles too that are not supported and managed to feed untill two aswell.
I did see many babies have bad reactions to formula and some where in the unit because of formula milk allergies or incorrect prep. Many babies needed medical formula such as Neocate but they where often surviving not thriving on it and needed sweetners in it to make it taste better. One mum was strugging to use the manual breast pump and was told by the midwife to find the bottle making room her baby was not loosing weight but pumping is hard going. I asked her if she knew that there was a electric pump available in the ward and she said no.

It's so sad that the idea of the "breastapo" and "breastfeeding militants" and breastfeeding being "shoved down people's throats" has basically stopped the conversation about breastfeeding and discouraged people from encouraging others to breastfeed.

while I tried to support her, I probably verged on safe side of being keen not to over encourage the BFing

I had exactly the same situation with a friend of mine. She was struggling to get breastfeeding established, had problems with latch and recurring mastitis and was supplementing with formula. I felt so awkward offering advice, or suggesting places that she might get expert help. I could already see she was on the slow road to unwittingly reducing her supply (overusing cabbage leaves to help with the mastitis, supplementing at night, not trying to latch the baby on), but I didn't want to seem pushy.

At least programmes like the Dispatches one open the discussion a little! Even if it is mostly along the lines of the OP

harrietm87

Harriet, I think from her post Socks second baby may have been in NICU or similar as she was having to express to feed them, so possibly situation not as normal because expressing colostrum and tube feeding it can be extremely challenging. In tht situation, if I have it right, it would be amazing if there was screened, safe donor milk readily available to tide baby over until mum's milk comes in/baby is able to feed directly and stimulate production. But such schemes are sadly very rare and not popular.

Sandstormbrewing Someone needs to print your post and turn it into a poster to hang at maternity units and GP practices!

I faced every single one of these issues while EBF DD. But I was too lazy to do anything about it determined to continue so I just kept going.

Needless to say no one had explained to me up to that point that this was perfectly normal BF baby behaviour.

harrietm87 my baby was born at 34 weeks by emergency section because the placenta was failing - the reason my first baby died. I know with full term healthy babies it is different.

And no donor milk available at my hospital.

Maybe then this is a wee bit of a breakthrough. If we focus on those first few days, and what is normal, and encourage women to give it a week. I do wonder if this might have spike in early BFing rates since everybody seems to have a story of a friend or family member who gave up trying to BF after a day or 2, not realising that all of the things sandstorm described were totally normal and healthy newborn BFing behaviour, designed by mother nature to stimulate supply.

I think if you can get over that hurdle, then you move on to phase 2, and the issues it can bring (if baby is still failing to latch properly, is there a TT, or just a positioning problem. Is there thrush or something else that needs treatment.) These are all a lot easier to treat once you have got through phase 1. I think we need to turn our focus to getting own over that first hurdle, as a starting point. And a lot of it comes down to education as to what is normal- managing expectations. It is staggering that certain HCPs don't seem to know this basic stuff.

Sock, I am so sorry, you poor love. How utterly traumatic both births must have been.

it would be amazing if there was screened, safe donor milk readily available to tide baby over until mum's milk comes in/baby is able to feed directly and stimulate production. But such schemes are sadly very rare and not popular

DSis works in NICU, and says that they only use donated breast milk for the very sickest babies because it's incredibly^ expensive. The donors aren't paid, but the company (a charity) that collects it and screens it and sterilises it charges a lot because it's an expensive and time-consuming process.

She says she's amazed by how few mothers want to even try expressing to feed their babies, even when it's explained that the risk of bowel NEC is greatly increased if formula is given. I guess a combination of the normalisation of FF and fatigue after giving birth put a lot of people off (not to mention the pump itself, which is uncannily like a milking machine that they use on cows...).

Could be @Excited0803, it's definitely worse in the evening.

fiftyshades

^I faced every single one of these issues while EBF DD. But I was too lazy to do anything about it determined to continue so I just kept going.*

That's when you know you've really got the hang of it, when the prospect of weaning is a wayyyy bigger ballache than breastfeeding ever was!!

@Ennirem To say you don't see ethics or internal reasoning etc in my suggestion (following on from yours) about formula being prescribed, I think you misunderstand what prescriptions are for - they are for required drugs, and you are just trying to insult someone with an alternative view point.

Formula is not a required drug. It is food (and yes food is required to survive, but you can't get a loaf of bread on prescription, so why should you get formula?!?).

BF is free. It is said to be better for the baby than FF. if you can BF, then do. If you choose not to, then pay for the food (as a very poor example, see this as the difference between choosing to grow your own tomatoes or buying them).

However, if you are unable to bf (eg taking medication not compatible with bf, don't produce enough milk and have tried every bit of advice), perhaps then getting a benefit to contribute towards the cost of FF would be a good idea to prevent babies starving.

I think one of the smaller considerations which should also be taken into account when choosing how to feed your baby is the cost (as it is when choosing whether to use reusable or disposable nappies). Please note I said "choosing", so this is where both feeding options are available to the parents.

Otherwise @Ennirem I think we shall have to agree to disagree.

@Grandmaswagsbag Why on earth would I know formula companies advertising approaches all over the world? This is like being shocked I don't know the advertising regulations for alcohol/tobacco/sanitary products in the rest of the world.
Personally, the words "breast milk substitute" makes me think of something being more similar to breast milk than the word "formula" does. Perhaps I'm not that easily swayed by advertising but the words "closer to breastmilk" don't make me think it's the same thing and "40 years of breast milk research" just makes me realise they are struggling to understand breast milk if they're still researching it 40 years later.

LoughingLikeAShark I donated 10 litres of breast milk to the local milk bank, as a tribute to my friends baby who was in NICU and would have massively benefitted from donor milk - my friend wasn't able to express sufficient amounts until after he died. I know I didn't help him, or her, but I felt like I was doing "something". It helped that I found I responded well to a pump and that DS wouldn't accept expressed milk!

Loughing we weren't even offered donated bm, and when my little one took a turn for the worse on day 2 and they said they needed ot give him some meds which would be better tolerated with something in his tummy (I was pumping like a fiend and producing fresh air) I didn't even ask. We didn't think twice about giving him formula! Of course it would have been great if there was bm available, but for a matter of two days it didn't even occur to me not to give it. And yes, while it wasn't optimum for a sick baby and might have disrupted his delicate gut biome, I figured that so would the antibiotics they were pumping into him!

Funnily enough, I believe in scotland in recent years there is a brilliant milk bank that has been established. www.onemilkbankforscotland.co.uk/

Isn't this amazing?

@Gizzymum
"Why on earth would I know formula companies advertising approaches all over the world?"

Have you done any reading now - if so what do you think of it? The nestle scandal was big news, and let to a widespread boycott.

But @CardinalCat I was told that - that milk wouldn't come in for several days and that colostrum was all my baby would need until then. I knew to expect cluster feeding.

I didn't know to expect my milk wouldn't be in at all on day 5. Or that it wouldn't be there in any quantity until my baby was several weeks old.

Women need to be educated on what is normal and what is not. And what to do if normal doesn't happen - then formula supplementation is totally the right thing to do.

I struggled to BF because I have oddly positioned nipples and my daughter had a very small tongue (essentially a tongue tie that can't be snipped - she still has trouble with bottles 6 months on and drinks very weirdly and noisily). I had 8 different midwives, not counting all the ones in hospital, all give me different advice to try and improve my latch (hold your breast / don't hold it / bring it to her / bring her to it / different positions etc etc). Eventually they'd give up and shove my boob in the baby's mouth which was fine for that one feed but didn't help me in the middle of the night when she was screaming for hours on end and I was weeping. She ended up in A&E with dehydration and we syringe-fed her expressed milk for three days until, after 48 hours with no sleep whilst trying to recover from a botched c-section, a cyst removal and a haemorrhage, I completely broke down and told my midwife that if I had to carry on expressing / syringing / trying to breastfeed I was going to kill myself. And I meant it. The whole experience triggered PND and I was ill for the first three months of my daughter's life.

What I needed was ONE person to help me, with consistent, expert advice. I needed to stay in hospital longer than 2 nights so I had someone to help me through cluster feeding on nights 3 and 4. I needed proper advice on expressing so that I wasn't researching breast pumps at 3am through a haze of exhausted tears after a midnight A&E visit. I am all for encouraging women to breastfeed but the infrastructure to support those of us who simply cannot get through it alone just isn't there.

The guilt of not breastfeeding will always be with me. I know I didn't give my daughter the best start in life and I regret it so intensely but even now I struggle to see how I could ever have managed it and stayed sane.

Please people DO NOT tell people it is normal for milk not to come in until day 5 and that the baby will be fine on colostrum alone.

My milk didn't come in at all until day 5. DD lost 13% of her birth weight and had high sodium levels - this causes brain damage and even death if they don't receive milk immediately. It is really really dangerous for milk not to come in until then and assume all will be ok.

@Gizzymum as a matter of fact you can get a loaf of bread on prescription (or you could few years ago - haven't checked recently ). My cousin was diagnosed with coeliac disease before it became common to be "gluten intolerant" and she used to get gf bread from the chemist. Anyway, just an aside.

@Ennirem and @Sockwomble thanks for clarifying. That must have been so hard and I'm so sorry.

My general point still stands though that as @Sandstormbrewing has said, a lot of people don't realise that milk isn't there immediately after birth.