Demonisation of formula!!!

[Summertimehaze]

Don’t know if anyone watched the Dispatches programme last night on breastfeeding? The more I think about that programme the more annoyed I’m getting!!! The demonisation of formula really doesn’t help mothers who struggle to breastfeed and have to start using formula or even as a top up!! Most mothers want to do what’s right for their babies and know that breast is best. But some mums just can’t do it and so formula literally becomes a lifesaver. I’m sick of seeing mums feel so guilty about it and letting their children bloody starve because they surely can’t give them the evil formula!!!!!! The programme basically tells a new mum that it’s really tough to breastfeed, there is no support, they will be judged BUT formula is not an option!!! Grrrrrrrrr 😡. AIBU

Very true of course, tiktok.

Breast milk is of course best. It's just rubbish to try and say ff is an equivalent choice, even while it may of course be an unavoidable necessity.

I think the problem nowadays lies in how divorced we are from any connection with our bodies. When I was pregnant (400 years ago) I was lucky to have a friend who'd been through it all who told me to get in a supply of books and dvds (no Netflix then, imagine), because sometimes they fed for four hours at a time... so I not only knew what to expect, I was lucky enough to have a lifestyle that allowed for a baby-centric existence. This, I think, is the missing part now. We simply aren't geared up for the kind of lives that babies actually require. We don't know what they are, and we don't want them, they are only tolerable if we have a group of supportive friends and other mothers to hang out with while it goes on, otherwise it's unbearably dull and depressing.

Having said all that, I did go all over England and Europe with my new born and bf everywhere with no probs at all. Maybe it's got worse with the emphasis on tits as men joy rather than baby food.

Watched it. I think bf is culture. Some people are from a culture that bf and persevere longer. Some people are from a bottle feeding culture.

I was passionate about bf, and bf. Yes it was painful - nipple trauma, poor latch, mastitis 3 times. But for me formula was only an option if there was no supply.

It was basically highlighting the lack of support Mum’s get when choosing to breastfeed and also the lack of information for women to have a proper informed choice due to formula being pushed as soon as any problem arises. If the support was there the poor breastfeeding rates in this country would improve. It was highlighting the challenges breastfeeding mums face. The fact that we are told that breastfeeding is best for Mum and baby, but then the lack of support means that breastfeeding can be a massive challenge needs to change. The government can’t keep on with these media campaigns and then withdraw funding so that vital services such as children’s centres are closed.

I disagree looked like they did a little explanation of the differences that's all. They even explained and was annoyed at how formula is giving false claims to mums that are most likely very vulnerable.

It was most definitely about lack of support and money cuts to helping breastfeeding. The massive struggle new mums face from the NHS and the general public. They even said at one point it was inhumane to say this is what's best but your on your own.

I think as soon as the subject comes up and the word formula is mentioned people get offended instantly.

It was nice to see some acknowledgement on how hard it is.

The comments from the public annoyed me more

I tried breastfeeding ended up suicidal and depressed because I couldn't and formula fed. It did not offend me in the slightest.

Hullygully, that is so true- we live in a culture that is hostile to babies and mothers and people in general are divorced from the physical realities of life. Hence people believe it is possible to change sex. Hence people prefer virtual relationships to real ones. Hence people can't cook real food for themselves. I could go on. But what is cause and what is effect?

See why is it that it’s the “biological norm” and yet we require so much intervention to do it properly? What’s natural about nipple shields? Why are infections, mastitis etc so common? Why is it so difficult?

Not trying to be goady - it has genuinely been playing on my mind.

Duggee - plenty of things that are biologically normal still need practice and a good environment to thrive. Walking, talking, loads of different physical skills.

Problem is in the UK we have an environment that makes this more difficult. We don't grow up seeing it, we don't have people around us who can suggest a quick latch adjustment, we have people telling us myths about how often babies should feed. It's these things that increase the risk of pain, mastitis, low milk etc.

Is formula feeding really a choice? Or is at 'choice' like lots of choices women have, such as choices of clothes with decent pockets, choices of how we look, act or dress, choices of subjects at school. Or, like those choices is it so ingrained in society that it's actually a socially constructed unchoice?

If 68% of British people believe there's no difference between formula and breast milk (study by Swansea university) then is it really an informed choice they are making?

(For those who have skipped to the end I have chosen to FF DC2 but do so knowing the constitutional nutritional and biological difference between formula and breast milk and that it is second best choice for my child. I simply driving want to).

If you look at the history of breastfeeding and formula, men (and it was men) did not make it to give women choice, or to save babies lives (those who could afford it used wet nurses). So why did they? To gain control over their women? To increase fertility? To reduce the bond that may have kept them from intimacy? To increase sex drive? It wasn't until the 40s and 50s that scientific research was turned to formula- it coincided with other medical advances to improve outcomes for infants.

I agree with hairy. We have lost the cultural impetus to breastfeed in this country. We have no tradition of it, many grandparents formula fed, knowledge is fucking pitiful, especially amongst HCPs.

The first thing that happens at the 5 day check is that babies are weighed. I was sent back into hospital with DS1 because the MW recorded his starting weight wrongly. I was forced to express, even though I thought BF had been working fine. It turned out it had, they checked the figures and he hadn't lost weight. Luckily, I am a stubborn cow and this strengthened my resolve to BF; I was also lucky that DM breastfed and told me I was doing great. SIL wasn't so lucky, same situation but her mum had FF and told her to give her a bottle. She immediately switched to formula.

Until we can unpick generations of poor advice, ignorance and stupid medical practices around breastfeeding, it will fail even if mothers' intentions are to continue.

As evidence of the above, during interwar years formula was heavily advertised and promoted and often free or subsidised, in an attempt to increase the population.

@DugeeHugg giving birth vaginally is the biological norm but that is still bloody painful and difficult.

I don't agree it was demonising those who chose to use formula but i wasn't hugely impressed with the programme. It is too big a subject to deal with in 25 minutes and I think it missed an opportunity to actually give some advice to those who do want to breastfeed and actually help increase breastfeeding rates. It just stated that breastfeeding rates are low, formula companies will use any loopholes they can to make money (as most corporations do) and seemed to suggest that you will get stared at like you have 7 heads if you dare to bf in public.

I do find it interesting that the presenter was asking for breastfeeding mothers on Instagram before she had given birth (I'm assuming this is the only child she has breastfed - I may be wrong). It could have been a very different show if the presenter herself had struggled with breastfeeding and chose formula.

The best thing that happened to DD was me switching to formula. She had a weak suck and would exhaust herself trying to feed. When I started mixed feeding, she shot back up from the 9th centile to the 91st. Then she decided she didn't like the breast except at bedtime, then not at all at 8 months. She's 10 now, and still can't drink out of Fruit Shoot bottles, it makes her cheeks numb.

@ShackUp I agree family and partner support is so important and often gets missed in discussions. I was really lucky to have the experience and support of my mum who had b/f 3 of us. I wonder if I’d have continued without her guidance and reassurance. The pressure put on many of my friends to switch by family members who just didn’t understand b/feeding was immense.

@PerfectlySymmetricalButtocks but you were still feeding your dd some BM at 8 months? That would place you in a very small percentage. Most people switch to formula after 6 weeks despite starting out attempt b/f.

Duggee, good questions.

We can speculate, knowing that this time - 20th/21st century - is different from the rest of history.

• we are feeding babies who are born who would not have survived even 25 years ago and certainly 50 or 100 years ago
• birth interventions of this time may interfere with babies' (and mothers') instinctive behaviours
• we don't see BF as much as we did and the visuals of it are new to us until we do it ourselves (may impact on positioning and attachment)
• expectations of normal infant behaviour are unrealistic

It's also possible that pain (sore nipples, mastitis) have always happened and:

• women expected and coped with pain in the past
• women passed the baby to someone else to feed while they resolved it using techniques everyone knew about

That's not an exhaustive list or the whole story, though, just some thoughts.

grandma the weird thing is, supportive DM has decided on an arbitrary age of 18 months to stop breastfeeding so she thinks I'm mad carrying on (nearly 3 with DS1, still going with DS2)...

I think there's a kind of 'false science' with babies: 'how do you know how much they're getting?', 'well, they mustn't be getting enough if they're feeding more than once every three hours', 'they're dropping centiles'. All of these untruths seem to persist, even though they're total nonsense.

I think you are romantiscing other cultures. My PA gave birth and her mum came until the passport was ready and then took the baby to the Phillipines to join the toddler and 5 year old. I don't know about her feeding. But my Indian colleague was locked in a room for 40 days post partum by her in laws and was only fed white food (plain rice) by MIL and after this she was sent back to work so in laws could control the baby. Luckily we found a way to terminate FIL (at time whole family were in UAE) and they went home. She is now expecting her next baby and looking forward to being free to feed as she choses.

Until a doctor can walk into a year 1 class or freshers week and point out which kids were bf and which were ff I’ll maintain my view that the breast is best mantra should remain in the laboratory from whence it came. It’s a totally pointless argument. Some people are very lucky and are able to breast feed after only s couple of weeks of effort some are very unlucky and can’t bf no matter how many lactation consultants are thrown their way. Others are in the middle and make their decision on many different factors, inc convenience, cost, sharing feeding, ease of method, other commitments and nutrition, people are generally sensible and make the right choice for them. But it doesn’t matter by age 3 they’ll all lusting after Freddos and knackered parents will be happy to buy multipacks for 5 seconds. Peace

Another thing I've wondered is, given the scientific arguments based on statistical probabilities (you know, the basis for much of medical knowledge and public health policy, so probably just judgemental bullshit amirite)... Maybe there's a better conversation to be had around the positive experience of breastfeeding in and of itself, rather than the long term health benefits to mother or baby? This discussion could range from the practical (cost, tantrum resolution in toddlers etc) to the more emotional - not the "bond" thing necessarily because I think that's a bit meaningless, plus unhelpful as it implies FF mums don't bond with their babies , but more the fact that, although you can bottle feed nephews, neices, babies of friends, in the everyday run of things you will only get the chance to experience feeding your own baby from your own body. It's a journey, and a life experience, and not necessarily a lovely pleasant one - that is way oversold imo, any forum of bf mums will tell you that it can be profoundly beautiful and serene etc but by and large it can be quotidian, distracted, uncomfortable, boring, and sometimes very very funny, especially as your child grows older - so it's not necessarily saying to people they shouldn't miss out because it's like sooooo byooteeful, just that (like hiking up Killimanjaro) it's something you have to do yourself to really have any idea what its like; and that despite being of use or interest only to oneself it can be a very profound experience and it really isn't like anything else that people do.

Not too sure where I'm going with this, but even if one accepts the premise that medically there are no health benefits to mother or baby of bf over FF, to suggest the two things are entirely equivalent ignores the specificity of the experience.

That should have said at the top "given the scientific arguments are so unpopular"

Although breast fed babies are less likely to be obese later in life so there is some difference

It didn’t demonise formula and the presenter even clearly said the programme was not to make people who chose to FF feel guilty . It didn’t even show BFing as an easy and wonderful thing, it showed just how difficult it can be.

The programme was simply trying to highlight how little support breastfeeding women get in this country and how wrong the public attitude towards it is.

I watched the programme and did not get the impression that it was slating women who bottle feed, rather that it was about how breast feeding is so challenging because of some people's perception.
It's scandalous that although it's illegal to advertise new born baby formula, companies get away with this by advertising follow on milk, which is totally unnecessary but makes parents feel they must use it.
Many women I know have not even considered breastfeeding because they don't want to get their boobs out in public! Surely that's the whole point of the programme last night. If people's perception is that women are flashing their bobs when feeding their babies, no wider so few women choose that option.
Breastfeeding is hard at the beginning, but it is by far the best option for babies. Therefore it should be promoted as much as possible.

Omg.

Now we have the bar set, by Mummyschnauzer, that there is no difference between bf and ff because a doctor cannot see at a glance the difference between the effects.

Look, for some reason you find it not credible that when human beings are very small and dependant, they thrive and develop best on the food that has evolved over the approximately 2.5 million years of human existence....rather than the food that has evolved to meet the needs of another species.

But pick a better way to say why you don’t believe this, please. Because the ‘no one can see the difference’ reason, used at least four times on this thread, makes no sense.

OP, if there was any other commercial product aimed at babies which, when used according to manufacturer’s instructions, left them at higher risk of SIDS, childhood leukaemia and hospitalisation, would you still call criticism of it ‘demonisation’?

Why is formula the only commercial product people aren’t allowed to criticise?

Is that because you had to/wanted to use it and you refuse to hear anything which might make you feel bad about that?

How adult of you. 😔