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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To think this is a bit off....But not sure why.

461 replies

Shortstuff08 · 30/07/2018 15:33

So, I had to go get the morning after pill today. I went to a high street retailer that has a pharmacy. They had a sign saying they provided it.

The woman behind the counter asked me if I was wanting the free one or to pay for it. I said that I assumed I would have to pay. She went away and came back and said they didn't provide the free one. I said that was fine and she told me that the Pharmacist would come our to see me in minute. A man approached me and asked if I was waiting. He then told me that he 'couldn't' provide MAP. I asked if they didn't have any and he said 'no, we do, but I can't give it'

Fair enough, I went to another high street store. Spoke to the Pharmacist there, she asked me a few questions about medication I am on and the gave me it. I said I was relieved she could as the other store couldn't give me it and thought I would spend all day looking for somewhere. She asked me where I had been and then said that some pharmacists, don't give it out due to religious purposes.

I don't think that's ok. If it's your job, how can you refuse on religious grounds? Or are some Pharmacists not able to administer it? Or am I being an arse in thinking that you should just do your job?

OP posts:

Original poster

Shortstuff08 · 30/07/2018 21:07

And there isn't always another pharmacy. In town there is. But my best friend lives
In the village outside town. There is one doctors and one Pharamacy. It's not easy to get town from that village.

OP posts:

manaftermidnight · 30/07/2018 21:08

yes, unusual, is in not very strict catholics! Strict catholics absolutely do expect others to live by their beliefs, that's how it works.

But you know other people than your grandparents, right? You know that there are people who don't or won't do certain things because of their religion? This can't be news.

Original poster

Shortstuff08 · 30/07/2018 21:16

manaftermidnight so you know all Catholics? Some Catholics expect others to live by their own beliefs. Some don't. Same as anyone else of any religion, they are all different and apply it in different ways.

Of course I know loads of other Catholics. I had a Catholic education until I was 18. I studied theology at a Catholic college.

I don't know any who would try and force their religion on someone, or rather I have never been in the situation where I have seen them do it. Some may and or probably do. But no One in my family does and neither would any of my close friends.

I went to church every week growing up. I don't now. My mum doesn't care wether I go or not. My dad isn't Catholic and there was no pressure for him to convert when they married. Mum and dad are divorced and no one judged her. Our priest even told her that she could take communion after her divorce. When another priest had told she couldn't. Our priest said that Wether she took communication was between my. And god and non of anyone else's business.

OP posts:

Original poster

Shortstuff08 · 30/07/2018 21:18

And its not news that some people do try and force religion on others.

It a surprise to me that you are allowed to do it in the medical profession and anyone's religious beliefs over rules someone's right to a perfectly legal medication.

OP posts:

THEsonofaBITCH · 30/07/2018 21:31

*There are other doctors to see, there are other pharmacists.

This is not the same as simply saying "this guy is racist, I'm not doing surgery on him". Saving a racists life does not directly cause a racists incident. But physically providing someone the MAP is being directly involved with the act, and by law they do no need to be involved if they don't want to be*
I love these arguments But Bitch (me), its different! Why? Take it to its illogical extreme! If at 180feet below the surface I notice a KKK ring on a soon to be victim I am helping a racist incident as this person is a proud racist and will be practicing racism in the future, so if I give him air instead of letting him drown I am helping racism. According to the PP I am free to say, well, there are other SaR personnel in the ocean nearby so I'm going to refuse o provide this air and let you wait or you are fee to go find the next SaR and see if his beliefs allow you to get air. Its the same if you want to buy a cake, your beliefs don't allow you to refuse to serve me if I want a wedding cake for my gay lover and I to celebrate with (as an example not really - though there is nothing wrong with that! (to paraphrase Jerry Seinfeld).

NaomiNagata · 30/07/2018 21:36

@THEsonofaBITCH

The difference is obvious. The pharmacist dispensing the medicine makes them a direct participant in an act they know is going to take place. It is not at all the same as saving someone who you think may or may not go on to do something which may or may not be against your beliefs.

Our right to live as we want does not trump someone else's right to live by their conscience. If they do not want to be the doctor physically removing to feotus, or to be the pharmacists physically providing the medication to stop a pregnancy, then they do not need to be.

Stardust91 · 30/07/2018 21:41

Not sure if a PP has mentioned this but some other PPs were saying why there wasn't a sign saying 'we don't provide this service'. It is possible this wasn't the regular pharmacist and he was a relief pharmacist/agency locum covering for the day. It happens, especially in summer holidays! Pharmacists need their break too!

Also, we don't know 100% sure why he refused and he should have explained. We are just assuming here it's based on religion.

You can get a free emergency pill if you have an NHS prescription from your GP if you are lucky and manage to get an emergency appointment.

Unfortunately, whether people like it or not pharmacists have the right to refuse based on their beliefs, BUT if that's the case a proper explanation should be given and customer should be guided to nearest pharmacy.

Last but not least, no other member of staff can sell emergency contraceptive pill unless they are qualified pharmacists. Their till log ins shouldn't work and only a pharmacists log in details work on the till for it.

THEsonofaBITCH · 30/07/2018 21:45

@NaomiNagata
Nope, same thing, illogical extremes no matter how much someone tries to twist things. TTFN

cheesemongery · 30/07/2018 21:45

The difference is obvious. The pharmacist dispensing the medicine makes them a direct participant in an act they know is going to take place

How do they magically know a sperm is going to meet the egg and that egg (feel like Jackanory) will travel all the way down the tubes and emplant into the lining of the uterus and result in a successful pregnancy?

Only by fucking withcraft I say!!

Or... there was never going to be a pregnancy regardless.

Witchcrafty buggers could make a fortune.

Mousefunky · 30/07/2018 22:12

Religion shouldn’t mix with your profession unless you are, say, a pastor or a rabbi.

I always find it ironic when people of a science background are so devoutly religious.

Lizzie48 · 31/07/2018 08:10

I wonder whether the pharmacist was a Catholic, in which case he would have objected on the grounds that the MAP was a contraceptive? A trained pharmacist would obviously know that the MAP isn't an abortive agent. But that would make it very difficult to work as a pharmacist, I would have thought.

It could be that he just wasn't a quality pharmacist and couldn't dispense the MAP himself and he didn't explain himself properly.

Jengnr · 31/07/2018 08:29

Quite. Nobody needs to be a doctor or a pharmacist. But if a person makes the decision to be one then they need to bloody well be one.

Original poster

Shortstuff08 · 31/07/2018 08:55

I wonder whether the pharmacist was a Catholic,

I don't have a clue. But then the question would be, would he give advice to an unmarried man about erectile dysfunction, which is another service they provide. Would he ask for proof of marriage? Due to Catholics being against sex before marriage?

Or is it just female contraception that he disagrees with?

Nobody needs to be a doctor or a pharmacist. But if a person makes the decision to be one then they need to bloody well be one.

This is how I feel. That career is a choice. I don't believe you should be able to do this sort of job, but not do it all and have your values influence other people's choices.

People who are saying it's because he would have been directly involved in the process of preventing my pregnancy, which is why he wouldnt do it, I have to ask. If I hadn't have got the MAP and ended up pregnant, surely the Pharmacist, could be classed as having participated in my decision and the process of me having an abortion. Or when it comes to abortion, is that just down to me and he can wash his hands of it then? It's nothing to do with him.

I went somewhere else. As ops have said, some people may have been scared to. This could leave them in a situation having to decide wether to have an abortion or not.

OP posts:

funinthesun18 · 31/07/2018 09:06

It’s a red herring saying it’s probably only a small part of his job. It’s still part of his job no matter how small. He shouldn’t be able to pick and choose the bits he doesn’t want to do.

BertrandRussell · 31/07/2018 09:08

ApRt from anything else, if he doesn’t have a problem with supplying contraception, refusing to supply the MAP seems to show a basic understanding of how it works......

funinthesun18 · 31/07/2018 09:10

People who are saying it's because he would have been directly involved in the process of preventing my pregnancy, which is why he wouldnt do it, I have to ask. If I hadn't have got the MAP and ended up pregnant, surely the Pharmacist, could be classed as having participated in my decision and the process of me having an abortion.

That’s exactly my thoughts and he has no right to do that. If you don’t want to be pregnant then he should be putting up no barriers to you preventing a pregnancy.

Or when it comes to abortion, is that just down to me and he can wash his hands of it then? It's nothing to do with him.

Pretty much.

Original poster

Shortstuff08 · 31/07/2018 09:43

BertrandRussell exactly. He will fulfill prescriptions for the pill, or does he refuse that?

funinthesun18 it's so wrong. His religious beliefs prevent me from being stopping getting pregnant. But it's nothing to do with him and his religion, if I do get pregnant and abort. It's disgusting.

The more I have thought about this the more pissed off I get. I will be emailing them when I finish work. It's just not ok.

OP posts:

Lizzie48 · 31/07/2018 09:50

It isn't the same as helping a man struggling with Erectile Dysfunction. Contraceptive devices are in themselves wrong according to strict Catholic teaching, as they see preventing pregnancy as a mortal sin. Whereas a lot of Catholics engage in sex before marriage and they're not excommunicated for it.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 31/07/2018 10:05

he was Jewish not that it matters and you are agreeing with my point,

No - I waas absolutely agreeing with you - it's just the way I read your first post I thought that there was a faith which forbade ANYTHING being sone on their holy day, and I wondered what it was.

Every faith I've encountered has always placed humanity over strict observance to a rule, because (as Jesus said) "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath*, ie when push comes to shove, people are more important than rules.

We had (locally) a Sikh pharmacist who felt that he could not provide things like the MAP to customers, but he always courteously referred the customer to one of the other assistants. His opinion was that his conscience wouldn't let him personally be involved, but at the same time, he was not the conscience for anyone else. He was a very nice man - we were sorry when he moved to another area.

SchadenfreudePersonified · 31/07/2018 10:05

8was not waas

Original poster

Shortstuff08 · 31/07/2018 10:29

Firstly, I don't know if he was Catholic, that's an assumption.

Lots of Catholics use contraception. Lots of Catholics engage in sex outside of marriage. Both are against Catholic beliefs. So therefore you are saying that not only can religion be used to dent treatment, the person can pick and choose which bits they fancy abiding by when denying treatment? So religion isn't the reason then, just someone's personal opinion And views?

And it just so happens it's to detirement of women.....But not men?

Really?

OP posts:

Original poster

Shortstuff08 · 31/07/2018 10:31

And how many people have been excommunicated for using contraception?

OP posts:

DuckAndPancakes · 31/07/2018 10:36

Not sure if it’s been said or not, but it may not have been the normal pharmacist for the store. The usual pharmacist could be trained and able to dispense, but if they have someone’s who isn’t trained or refuses on religious grounds, the advertising is still there without the ability.
There is different training to be able to sell it.

The morning after pill is free from a pharmacy under a certain age. It’s always free with a prescription.

YreneTowers · 31/07/2018 11:03

I saw a young girl in school uniform being refused the MAP in my local chemist - I was appalled that they did it out in the open where other customers could hear, and didn't use the consulting room.

We are a village with one GP and one pharmacy. She lived in the next village, which also has one GP and one pharmacy. She had bunked off school and come on the bus, as she didn't want to risk running into anyone who knew her parents as she didn't want them to find out.

I have no idea what happened to her.

Lizzie48 · 31/07/2018 11:13

That's totally disgraceful, @YreneTowers I had no idea this sort of thing still happened.

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