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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is a bit off....But not sure why.

461 replies

Shortstuff08 · 30/07/2018 15:33

So, I had to go get the morning after pill today. I went to a high street retailer that has a pharmacy. They had a sign saying they provided it.

The woman behind the counter asked me if I was wanting the free one or to pay for it. I said that I assumed I would have to pay. She went away and came back and said they didn't provide the free one. I said that was fine and she told me that the Pharmacist would come our to see me in minute. A man approached me and asked if I was waiting. He then told me that he 'couldn't' provide MAP. I asked if they didn't have any and he said 'no, we do, but I can't give it'

Fair enough, I went to another high street store. Spoke to the Pharmacist there, she asked me a few questions about medication I am on and the gave me it. I said I was relieved she could as the other store couldn't give me it and thought I would spend all day looking for somewhere. She asked me where I had been and then said that some pharmacists, don't give it out due to religious purposes.

I don't think that's ok. If it's your job, how can you refuse on religious grounds? Or are some Pharmacists not able to administer it? Or am I being an arse in thinking that you should just do your job?

OP posts:
funinthesun18 · 31/07/2018 12:42

funinthesun18 it's so wrong. His religious beliefs prevent me from being stopping getting pregnant. But it's nothing to do with him and his religion, if I do get pregnant and abort. It's disgusting.

It is disgusting. You’d be left to pick up the pieces regarding an unwanted pregnancy even though you tried to prevent a pregnancy from occurring, all because Hr has a problem with the MAP. And then you get the cheek from people saying women use abortion as a form of contraception! Angry Well maybe if we didn’t have stupid pharmacists who deny women and girls emergency contraception....

funinthesun18 · 31/07/2018 12:43

he not Hr

HugAndRoll · 31/07/2018 12:56

OP did you read the links I posted? (Around page 2) I actually don't think the refusal rule extends to pharmacists anymore anyway.

Ultimately people are never refusing due to religious beliefs; they are refusing due to their own judgement of a person. That's why there's contradiction both within religions themselves and the individuals who practice them. Anyone with that level of judgment of others should not be in a healthcare profession.

Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 31/07/2018 13:09

funinthesun18 spot on.

hugandroll I did thank you. It doesn't say explicitly, but I am interested in the 'act professionally'. Because, if you are refusing in ground of religion, then that's not a professional decision. I have kept the link for when I email the company.

And yes, people often apply their religion in their own way. These are personal choices and have no place in the work place. Especially in healthcare.

But also I wonder why, a high street store, would support someone doing this. Which they do by letting it happen. If they allow someone to work for them that turns customers away and discriminates against customers, then they are supporting it.

OP posts:
TomaszIsMineBitch · 31/07/2018 13:10

I have been refused the map before alsoon religious grounds. We had to drive an hour out of town before we found a chemist who would dispense it.
Would the pharmasist have refused to sell condoms? Probably not! So why is it ok to refuse the map. I dont think religion should have any place at work.

Nyancat · 31/07/2018 13:20

Tomasz I may be totally wrong but somewhere I recall that some of them differentiate between condoms and MAP as condoms are preventative but that the MAP is an abortifacient.

A friend went to get it and the pharmacist refused on religious grounds so sent them to another pharmacy on down the road. That pharmacy would give it but didn't have any in stock so the pharmacist went personally to the first shop, collected the MAP from there, brought it back to the second shop and handed it over. If it wasn't so ridiculous it would be comical.

Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 31/07/2018 13:23

that the MAP is an abortifacient

No it's not.

OP posts:
Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 31/07/2018 13:24

And it shouldn't matter anyway.

Women still have a right to it. We also have the right to abortions.

OP posts:
HugAndRoll · 31/07/2018 13:31

That's the bit that I found interesting too. Along with the BMA/GMC statement that the MAP isn't abortive I don't think pharmacists actually have much of an argument.

leighdinglady · 31/07/2018 13:46

Of course this shouldn't be allowed. It's a medical need. That's like someone refusing to perform a blood transfusion on religious grounds. Your religion should never affect someone else's body

brizzledrizzle · 31/07/2018 13:50

They are allowed to refuse on religious grounds I think, it's the same principal as medical staff being allowed to refuse to help with terminations.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/news/7521153/New-code-allows-religious-pharmacists-to-opt-out-of-prescribing-contraception.html

I'm an atheist now but back in my Christian days I've had given it, maybe I should have described myself as a hypocrite rather than a Christian.

Mia1415 · 31/07/2018 13:52

This has always been the case. I worked in a pharmacy when they morning after pill was first allowed to be sold in them. I think (might be wrong) it was part of the negotiations with their union/ professional body when it was started that a pharmacist could refuse on religious grounds.

Each time we had a locum pharmacist I remember asking them whether they would sell it or not and I hated having to tell women that they would have to go elsewhere.

Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 31/07/2018 14:02

brizzledrizzle that article is 8 years old. So things could have changed? It also says they can refuse if they have 'strict religious' beliefs. Who defines what's strict? How do we prove they have strict religious beliefs

What if the Pharmacist is strict when it comes to female contraception, but then has sex outside marriage?

It's all to vague because religion isn't facts. It's opinion and belief.

I am not expecting you to answer these points. It's just what is raised in my head when I read about it.

This has always been the case it's shocking that it's always been the case. And doesn't make it right.

Why did locum pharmacists not give it out?

OP posts:
SimonBridges · 31/07/2018 14:02

We had to drive an hour out of town before we found a chemist who would dispense it.

And what would have happened if you hadn’t had access to a car or had been a young girl too afraid to tell your parents?

TomaszIsMineBitch · 31/07/2018 14:06

And what would have happened if you hadn’t had access to a car or had been a young girl too afraid to tell your parents?

Exactly! I was young and luckily my partner had a car and was able to help me. Unfortunately that isnt the case for everyone so leaves allot of women unable to get the treatment they need Angry

Thedutchwife · 31/07/2018 14:14

They should actually pack their things together and go home and not work in this environment. I’ve seen it quite often with locum pharmacists as it’s against their religion. It’s disgusting

I actually feel it’s way more worse when GP do it though.

My friend got caught pregnant very soon in to a relationship, they both decided they did not want a baby so she asked GP for a referral. The GP made her sit outside in corridor while she got another doctor as she didn’t agree with them. Friend was aghast. Even more so when she went on to marry her partner and seven years later had to see the same GP that refused her to ask for referral to see why she wasn’t getting pregnant.

Awful

HugAndRoll · 31/07/2018 14:30

bizzle the stuff I linked to followed a 2017 consultation where they were looking to revoke that clause for pharmacists. I still can't find a public document explicitly saying the law either way, but their new guidelines say (I'm paraphrasing) that professional knowledge and care comes above personal beliefs. The document is on page 2 or 3 of this thread.

Goth237 · 31/07/2018 22:27

I think it's fine to refuse based on religious beliefs. But as other pp have said, they should have directed you to someone who could supply you with what you wanted.

Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 01/08/2018 04:50

I think it's fine to refuse based on religious beliefs

Can you tell me when it wouldn't be fine to refuse? I have asked this and no One can answer.

OP posts:
nellyolsenscurl · 01/08/2018 05:27

In one of my labours the midwife was telling me that as a practising Christian she didn't have anything to do with TFMR. I was quite surprised that it was allowed to opt o ut completely of a job role but she said she to ethics it was fine.

Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 01/08/2018 06:00

nellyolsenscurl so which part of her teachings say that a woman's life is nothing and acceptable to risk?

Can't see how that blends with a nurses ethics.

OP posts:
shelentei · 01/08/2018 06:05

Do you live in the us op? I've heard lots of stories about pharmacists refusing contraception on religious beliefs. Yanbu it's definitely off. And very wrong.

Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 01/08/2018 06:09

shelentei I wish I lived in the US! Grin

I am in a small town about 10 miles outside of Leeds.

OP posts:
ovenchips · 01/08/2018 06:25

I think I’d want to go back to that pharmacy again and ask for a private word with the person who originally refused you and ask them to explain why they did so and then let them know how unhelpful it was!

I think that is best way to ‘resolve’ your understandable feelings about what happened, as you were taken aback at the time and didn’t get a chance to respond.

Kickassbitch · 01/08/2018 06:32

pro choice - choice can go both ways, you choose to take it they can choose to disagree and not give it. If people what the ability to choose then you have to accept that people can choose to refuse, this can be the downside to having these freedoms.