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'A Liar should have a good Memory,' Trump thread cont.

999 replies

lionheart · 30/07/2018 02:58

Quotation from Quintillian, I believe (unless someone was fibbing about that too).

Old thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3309032-Has-Trump-Turned-Traitor-Trump-thread-continued?watched=1&msgid=79826824#79826824

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21
Roussette · 04/08/2018 08:12

A good article spelling out exactly what Trump is...

www.rawstory.com/2018/07/trumps-life-one-failure-another-presidency-will-no-different/#.WzvQN8qc6jY.twitter

Gumpendorf · 04/08/2018 08:26

Maddow is off this week and Ari Melber is sitting in. This is a useful summary of weight of case so far. Melber was a lawyer so knows of what he is speaking Wink

https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/manafort-accountant-with-immunity-testifies-on-bank-tax-fraud-1292125763848

hate the redesigned MSNBC website which plays havoc with my iPad

Gumpendorf · 04/08/2018 08:33

That's a useful article Rousette. I'm constantly being told by UK people who know little about him that he was a successful business man so he must know what's he's doing.

When I point out his bankruptcies etc, they look bemused and say 'well he's very rich anyway so he must being doing something right'. Yes, it's called corruption and money laundering. Angry

lionheart · 04/08/2018 08:48

He is rich = let's make him the leader is a peculiar equation anyhow.

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lionheart · 04/08/2018 09:05

I certainly hope so.

www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/08/trumps-new-frenzy-unnerves-his-advisers

'Whether it’s confidence or delusion, Trump has dropped any pretense of patience with Robert Mueller and is taking his legal defense into his own hands. West Wing advisers fear he is careening toward disaster.'

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ohmymimi · 04/08/2018 09:44

The Oaf is at Bedminster for two weeks. Considering whether talking to Mueller over weekend. Both per Gargoyliani.

Just listening to Ari Member now, Gump - at least he is not using his daft rap quotes when covering for the Maddow. Come back Rachel!

ohmymimi · 04/08/2018 09:45

MemberGrin

ohmymimi · 04/08/2018 10:24

Trump’s life has been one failure after another — his presidency will be no different
The Oaf has survived, and won, in his 'business' life and in politics. He has survived, and won, in commercial, legal, and political systems that have failed to hold him to account, so have effectively enabled him. Those systems failed, hugely, and what has changed? He is not in prison, he is not destitute, he is the President of the United States of America, with every prospect of a second term. That is the true failure.

PerkingFaintly · 04/08/2018 10:37

If you're able to read the Washington Post, these articles cover the Manafort trial day by day.

Short version: lots of luxury spending on clothes, property, etc, often paid for directly by wire transfers from Cyprus or other foreign bank accounts. Manafort signed legal declarations saying he had no foreign bank accounts. His accountants and other support staff received instructions either directly from Manafort or from Gates to cook the books in a variety of ways. Manafort's defense are trying to blame Gates for everything.

Day one of the Paul Manafort trial: Jury selection, first witness called and a $15,000 ostrich jacket
www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/07/31/paul-manafort-trial-live-coverage/?utm_term=.f3d8d38a3ece

Paul Manafort trial Day 2: Witnesses describe extravagant clothing purchases, home remodels, lavish cars paid with wire transfers
www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/08/01/paul-manafort-trial-day-two/?utm_term=.60c7a4f07c5c

Paul Manafort trial Day 3: Bookkeeper testifies about overseas accounts, cash flow problems, unpaid bills
www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/08/02/paul-manafort-trial-day-3-live-updates/?utm_term=.7abc259dcd5d

Paul Manafort trial Day 4: Accountant testifies she helped falsify documents to help Manafort get loans
www.washingtonpost.com/news/local/wp/2018/08/03/paul-manafort-trial-day-4-what-to-expect-from-testimony-today/?utm_term=.5dec1577792e

PerkingFaintly · 04/08/2018 10:40

BBC reporting:

Trump ex-campaign chief Manafort lied, court told
<a class="break-all" href="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45007127?intlink_from_url=www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c07w9y87k0wt/paul-manafort&link_location=live-reporting-story" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45007127?intlink_from_url=www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c07w9y87k0wt/paul-manafort&link_location=live-reporting-story

Trump ex-campaign chief Manafort's 'income doctored'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45066398

PerkingFaintly · 04/08/2018 10:46

NB this trial is about Manafort's financial affairs before he became involved with the Trump campaign.

So Trump could wash his hands of Manafort. Instead he's wading in, and Giuliani's wibbling about pardons.

Manafort is also facing a second trial, relating to his political work in Ukraine.

He has also been charged with witness tampering (IIRC to do with a Russian connection), and I'm not sure whether that will be a third separate trial.

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ohmymimi · 04/08/2018 12:12

The true test, however, will fall on Republicans in Congress – especially those who voted to impeach Clinton and spoke passionately and directly about obstruction of justice.

As McConnell said in 1999:

^[The president’s] decisions have led the United States Senate to its own critical crossroads. And now we must choose our path. We can do the right thing. Or we can lower our standards and allow [the president] to cling to public office ― regardless of the consequences to our nation, to our system of justice, and to our future generations...

So what will we do this day? Will we rise above or will we sink below? Will we condone this president’s conduct or will we condemn it? Will we change our standards or will we change our president?^

I think we all know what the answers to those questions are now, Mitch.

PerkingFaintly · 04/08/2018 12:20

Documents disprove White House voter fraud claims, says ex-member of Trump commission
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/03/documents-disprove-white-house-voter-claims-says-ex-member-of-trump-commission

A review of documents has shown White House claims to have unearthed “substantial evidence” of voter fraud were false, according to a junior member of Donald Trump’s short-lived commission on election integrity.

Matt Dunlap, the top elections official in Maine, said he had examined 1,800 commission documents that were denied to him while he served and that he had since obtained through a court order. He found nothing in them to substantiate the claims made by the commission’s vice-chair, Kris Kobach, and the White House when the commission was disbanded in January.

“The sections on evidence of voter fraud are glaringly empty,” Dunlap reported in an official letter to Kobach and the vice-president, Mike Pence, the commission chair. “After months of litigation that should not have been necessary, I can report that the statements by Vice Chair Kobach and the White House were, in fact, false.”

The presidential commission was embroiled in controversy from the time of its establishment in May 2017 until it was abruptly disbanded seven months later. Voting rights activists suspected from the outset that it was a vehicle to promote voter suppression, not electoral integrity, and was designed to find “evidence” of Trump’s baseless claim that up to 5m fraudulent votes were cast in the 2016 presidential election.
[...]
Dunlap and other commission members complained they were being treated as token figures while Kobach, the elections chief in Kansas, and a small group of others conducted most of the work in secret. When Dunlap sued for access to the commission’s paperwork, the commission preferred to disband than to accede to a judge’s order to share its work with him.

Roussette · 04/08/2018 12:40

Thanks for the links re Manafort everyone.

Re Trump's success... without a huge payout from his Father, and a massive inheritance, and a Father who then went on to bail him out a number of times, he would not be in the position he is... and as others have said, if he'd invested the original huge amount of money he was given, he'd be better off than he is now. He's a shyster and thinks the rules don't apply to him so he just leaves a trail of unpaid bills and yes, I agree Mini the system is rotten to the core that he has been able to get away with all of this and has been rewarded wth the position of POTUS.

ohmymimi · 04/08/2018 13:18

Everything you say about the Oaf is so true, Roussette, (and, to boot, he has never really had to work for anything in his useless life), but I just do not now believe the problem is his perceived successes and his actual failures. The problem is much greater, in that the institutions which should hold one such as he to account have not done so, and, probably, will not do so now, nor in the future. The problem is that failure is lastingly destructive to the country, and its institutions, which have, in effect, nurtured this corrupt, deviant, moral void. That Al Wilson song 'The Snake', which the Oaf is so fond of quoting, could also be taken as an allegory for his rise:

' "I saved you," cried that woman
"And you've bit me even, why?
You know your bite is poisonous and now I'm going to die"
"Oh shut up, silly woman," said the reptile with a grin
"You knew damn well I was a snake before you took me in.'

I used to love that songAngry

cozietoesie · 04/08/2018 13:27

He does seem fond of the sentiments expressed in that song. Sad

ohmymimi · 04/08/2018 13:32

Opinion
Trump Will Have Blood on His Hands
His demonization of the news media won’t fall on deaf ears.

By Bret Stephens
Opinion Columnist

Aug. 3, 2018

The voice, if I had to guess, belongs to that of a white American male in late middle age. The accent is faintly Southern, the manner taunting but relaxed. It’s also familiar: I’m pretty sure he’s left a message on my office number before. But the last voice mail left almost no impression. Not this time.

“Hey Bret, what do you think? Do you think the pen is mightier than the sword, or that the AR is mightier than the pen?”

He continues: “I don’t carry an AR but once we start shooting you f—ers you aren’t going to pop off like you do now. You’re worthless, the press is the enemy of the United States people and, you know what, rather than me shoot you, I hope a Mexican and, even better yet, I hope a n— shoots you in the head, dead.”

He repeats the racial slur 10 times in a staccato rhythm, concluding with the send-off: “Have a nice day, n— lover.”

He doesn’t give his name. His number is blocked.

The call dates from the end of May, right after I had published a column defending ABC’s firing of Roseanne Barr for a racist tweet. “Perhaps the reason Trump voters are so frequently the subject of caricature,” I wrote, “is that they so frequently conform to type.”

Four weeks later, a gunman storms into a newsroom in Annapolis, Md., and murders five employees of the Capital Gazette.

The alleged killer in the Annapolis shooting does not appear to have acted from a political motive. But the message I got in May was the third time I’ve been expressly or implicitly threatened with violence by someone whose views clearly align with Donald Trump’s. Otherwise, the only equivalent threat I’ve dealt with in my career involved a Staten Island man who later went to prison for his ties to Hezbollah.

Which brings me to the July 20 meeting between Trump and two senior leaders of The Times, publisher A.G. Sulzberger and editorial page editor James Bennet. As Sulzberger later described the encounter, he warned the president that “his language was not just divisive but increasingly dangerous,” and that characterizations of the news media as “the enemy of the people” are “contributing to a rise in threats against journalists and will lead to violence.”

Sulzberger’s warning had no effect. Nine days after what was supposed to be an off-the-record meeting, the president tweeted that he and Sulzberger “spent much time talking about vast amounts of Fake News being put out by the media & how that Fake News has morphed into phrase ‘Enemy of the People.’ Sad!”

By now, it almost passes without comment that the president of the United States not only violates the ground rules of his own meetings with the press, but also misrepresents the substance of the conversation.

Also nearly past comment was the president’s remark, in a follow-on tweet, that the media were “very unpatriotic” for revealing “internal deliberations of our government” that could put people’s lives at risk. That’s almost funny considering that no media organ has revealed more such deliberations, with less regard for consequences, than his beloved WikiLeaks.

What can’t be ignored is presidential behavior that might best be described as incitement. Maybe Trump supposes that the worst he’s doing is inciting the people who come to his rallies to give reporters like CNN’s Jim Acosta the finger. And maybe he thinks that most journalists, with their relentless hostility to his personality and policies, richly deserve public scorn.

Yet for every 1,000 or so Trump supporters whose contempt for the press rises only as far as their middle fingers, a few will be people like my caller. Of that few, how many are ready to take the next fatal step? In the age of the active shooter, the number isn’t zero.

Should that happen — when that happens — and journalists are dead because some nut thinks he’s doing the president’s bidding against the fifth column that is the media, what will Trump’s supporters say? No, the president is not coyly urging his supporters to murder reporters, like Henry II trying to rid himself of a turbulent priest. But neither is he the child who played with a loaded gun and knew not what he did.

Donald Trump’s more sophisticated defenders have long since mastered the art of pretending that the only thing that matters with his presidency is what it does, not what he says. But not all of the president’s defenders are quite as sophisticated. Some of them didn’t get the memo about taking Trump seriously but not literally. A few hear the phrase “enemy of the people” and are prepared to take the words to their logical conclusion.

Is my caller one of them? I can’t say. But what should be clear is this: We are approaching a day when blood on the newsroom floor will be blood on the president’s hands.

www.nytimes.com/2018/08/03/opinion/trump-fake-news-enemy.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

And there will not be any jokes about his tiny hands, then. And the growth of QAnon trumpnuts just increases the threat of harm:

'QAnon: latest Trump-linked conspiracy theory gains steam at president's rallies
The internet-driven claims amount to far-right fan fiction, but they could have real-world consequences'

www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/aug/03/qanon-conspiracy-theory-trump-rallies

ohmymimi · 04/08/2018 13:38

Projection, cozie -
You're rubber, I'm glue. Everything sticks to me that bounces off youGrin

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