AIBU to ask which is the most neutral term dinner, supper or tea?

[ConfusedWife1234]

AIBU to ask which the most neutral term for dinner/supper/tea is? I am not a native speaker and I have been told that your usage of the word says a lot about ethnic ancestry, social class, if your are from the UK, US or another English speaking country, part of the country and so on. Which is the most neutral term and when do I use which one?

"Lunch Supervisors"! Never ever heard Dinner Ladies called that. All the young children I know (admittedly not many) call them Dinner Ladies.

I have never used the words dessert or pudding. Me and DH call it sweet. If we have a yoghurt or ice cream or fruit pie after our evening tea we say we are having a "sweet".

We always have our cooked meal in the evening and we both call it "tea". Afternoon tea is something completely different and that is why it has the word "afternoon" in it.

if we book a table in restaurant we just ask if we can book a table. It doesn't include saying "can we book a table for tea". I would say to anyone that I am going out for a meal. If it were at lunchtime I would say I am going out for lunch.

@fantasia243

If I book a 7pm table for a meal in a pub or restaurant anywhere In the north of England, I would be booking for "Tea" and I would tell my friends that DH and I were going out for tea?

Yep. I often go out for tea with friends around 6/7pm.

Strange. I've been a teacher for many years in both private and state schools and the dinner ladies have always been dinner ladies, with exception to one man in my last school, who was the food man. Have you never seen the TV show?

Despite the differences in what we all say as a matter of upbringing/geography/whatever, isn't 'going out for dinner' as in eating out in the evening at a restaurant more or less ubiquitous?

If you have a table booked for - say - 8.00 pm, then is that (almost!) universally going out for dinner?

This is based on my straw poll of one friend from the north who says 'tea' for the evening meal, but says dinner if she's eating out in the evening.

When I was at boarding school in the U.K. We had breakfast,lunch and supper as our three main meals. I never use the word supper for my evening meal. I suppose I use the words breakfast,lunch and dinner, but often will shout "come and get your dinner"to the kids even at lunch ?!? But then I'm a strange mongrel at the best of times, English father,Greek mother,born in Germany,grew up in Hong Kong lol. In geek it is much easier-we say "morning meal, midday meal and evening meal" no confusion :)

SheGot, no it's not "going out for dinner" in my family. It's "going out for a meal"

I have to say that until I read this thread, so full of inverse snobbery, I had never realised "supper" was thought to be a "posh" term. I always thought it was a relatively informal evening meal, the exact opposite of a "dinner" which had more formality, would be in a dining room or restaurant - and would need me to do much more cooking if I was undertaking it. Isn't it odd though that so many people on this thread are so quick to use unpleasant language about what other people call their meals? I note it is not those who might be called "posh" who are criticising and looking askance at others.

On an earlier part of the thread people were discussing why civilians, the military and the clergy have never been seen as distinct classes or castes in the UK. Could it be that until relatively recently, and still to some extent, they, with the Bar, traditionally came from the same background - often in the early 20th, 19th and 18th centuries, being the second or third sons of country gentry or descended from them. Where people did come into those professions from a different background, as my own grandfather did, from a Northern grammar school and University, commissioned in 1939 and remaining in the Army after the war to become fairly senior, they were absorbed into the ethos of the profession they had joined and, in a way, into their new place in the class structure which was not only inherent in that profession but in the whole of British life. Because that structure was far wider than the profession it obviated the need for a caste system - there was already that wider code of manners and attitudes which made a German type officer class system unnecessary. Moreover the Army's tradition, since 1689, of eschewing politics, rarely wearing uniform on social occasions and of being civilians in all but profession must have helped to prevent them becoming a separate caste as must the relatively short terms of service of those who did a stint as young subaltern but never intended to make a career of it.

I suggest a good read to understand better why you really will not get definite anwer to the question:
www.amazon.co.uk/Watching-English-Hidden-Rules-Behaviour/dp/0340818867?tag=mumsnetforum-21

:-)

When the factories closed at 5pm, working class men used to go home, absolutely ravenous and would have “tea” as soon as they got home - a meal like egg and chips or baked beans, potatoes etc. Simple cheap and filling food. By the time it got to about 9pm they’d be a bit hungry again and might have “supper” - a snack of toast or cereal perhaps.

Upper class people had a gap from lunch at about 1pm to dinner at about 8pm, (and no manual work) and so they would also have “tea” but it would be a light affair, something like a small sandwich or slice of cake and a cup of tea. Upper class people having a light evening meal would call it “supper” - but it wasn’t a snack at 9pm it was a proper meal - just more informal than a dinner. So a pork chop and mashed potato and peas - like the meal that John Major and his wife would have in the cartoon.

Middle class people used to have “dinner” but earlier - they had jobs so they couldn’t stop for a proper afternoon tea break. They didn’t have maids creating amazing meals for them so would be cooking for themselves - so they would eat at about 7pm. Some upper middles used to call it “supper”.

The sweet food you have afterwards was known originally by working class people as “pudding”, by lower middle class people as “afters” or “sweet” (although these terms have died out now really). Middle class people tended to call it a “dessert” and upper class people also called it “pudding”. It was said that working class people shared quite a lot of similarities with upper class people. Neither would dream of taking their shoes off when they came into the house. Neither would have net curtains or anything fancy or “twee”. Hyacinth Bouquet was seen to be the epitome of lower middle class - desperate to look more “tippy”.

Of course, in time and across different regions there are lots of different usages.

The most neutral is

Breakfast
Lunch
Dinner

And dessert.

I have to say that until I read this thread, so full of inverse snobbery, I had never realised "supper" was thought to be a "posh" term. ... Isn't it odd though that so many people on this thread are so quick to use unpleasant language about what other people call their meals? I note it is not those who might be called "posh" who are criticising and looking askance at others.

Yes, it is interesting. People don't see any issue with being openly disparaging. It just comes across as incredibly chippy and inferior, though - why the need?

Supper has pretty much fallen out of use where I am. It's just breakfast, lunch and dinner.

We don't have 'dinner ladies', kids don't have hot meals in the middle of the day, they just take packed lunches. People will often have something hot in the middle of the day (though something light, like pho or a warm salad), but it would never be called dinner. Dinner is always just the evening meal.

I do think, internationally speaking, taking all English-speaking countries into account, 'dinner' for the evening meal is the most neutral.

I might have “a quick supper” or “a light supper”. Dinner never has “quick” or “light” as a qualifier.

I agree ^^ that, across all English speakers including those of English as an international language (the linguistic argument is that this is a variant in its own right with various sub-variants and I tend to agree), 'dinner' is the most neutral, partly because 'lunch' is the most familiar and neutral word for the midday meal.

ConfusedWife, I'm fascinated about the German smoking rooms - do you come from an upper-class background? (FWIW, as far as I can tell smoking indoors seems to have pretty much died out over here, even among inveterate smokers, of which there are sadly a lot more than in the UK). To me it would be the sort of thing I'd associate with the Buddenbrooks :)

Wish people would leave off the subtle troll-hunting. My German is near-native and sounds as 'natural' as it's possible to, but every now and then a term comes up which I've never heard of.

Umm dinner absolutely. Tea is a hot drink and supper is a word I use twice a year for a bowl of cereal or snack late night

Has and always will be breakfast, lunch and dinner for me, supper rarely, and dessert.

'What you having for tea' makes me cringe, as does 'sweet'

I'm German and I have never come across a smoking room in all my life, except maybe while reading Buddenbrooks.

There is a smoking room in Munich airport.

I haven't encountered this in people's homes though, although my German FIL was only allowed to smoke outside or in the kitchen (yuk!)

Yeah, I know the room at the airport but I have never seen a designated smoking room in a German home.

Yes, the public smoking room thing in Germany is weird (although quite uncommon - there's a tiny one at a local bowling alley that nobody uses, the only other one I know is at a theatre rehearsal centre I take my dc to for concerts/youth choir etc). The anti-smoking legislation here allowed for separate smoking rooms with separate ventilation, but hardly anyone seems to have been bothered.

But a dinner jacket in German is called a 'Smoking', isn't it?

seems to have bothered, not seems to have been bothered. The other thing we have in Germany atm is a heatwave

Smoking room in Copenhagen airport too. And your allowed to smoke in pubs some places there. ( in the city)

I think dinner ladies are thus named because, for children, the hot meal in the middle of the day was their main meal. They then had a light ‘tea’ and an even lighter supper just before bed.

I think the people who have been living here before as had a lot of money in the day when they decorated the rooms and decided one would be the smoking room, guessing that from the decoration that looks rich. I have come across other smoking rooms but only in big houses that were fancy once, small flats do not have a smoking room that would be odd and a waste of space. That‘s true. When I asked for a smoking room I did not mean to say that most Germans had one, most do not, while some do. I just asked be because going to another room to have dessert and wine in Oxford was mentioned and I realized that I do not know the name of that room.
However most Germans I know do consider it yucky to smoke around food or where they eat and I do think the Knigge (German version of Debretts New Peerage) says smoking where you eat is a social Fauxpas. Having said this I never did read the Knigge. I just heard people saying so.

Okay. I looked it up. According to the Knigge it is rude to smoke where people eat in Germany unless they invite you to. It is also rude to ask for permission to do so because they could feel pressured.
Bars and restaurants where we live have smoker rooms or sometimes they have sort of ovens (how do I say: Heizpilz? Heating mushroom lol outside) where smokers gather.

www.terrassenheizer-online.de/heizpilz/enders-elegance-silber?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsL3jmv7L3AIV2JkbCh2pbgzXEAQYAyABEgKKNvD_BwE

I learned how to link. An example of an Heizpilz. How is that called?

In Austria smoking is still allowed in public places, including in restaurants and bars - although they have No Smoking areas, but the smoke still wafts over.

Really revolting, and many more people seem to smoke there too.